Obama’s speech: positive reviews and some questions
Dante Chinni
Posted: 02.25.2009 / 8:02 AM PST
Americans said they wanted more hope and optimism, and by nearly all accounts they got it Tuesday night from President Obama.
The president, addressing a joint session of Congress, told it and the larger audience tuning in, “We will rebuild, we will recover, and the United States of America will emerge stronger than before.” Toward the end, in a poignant moment, he described a letter from a young girl asking for help for her school in Dillon, S.C., and he repeated a line from it: “We are not quitters.” It brought down the house – or, shall we say, the House.
But the speech was tinged with what thus far has been a hallmark of the Obama administration: the desire to not paint an overly rosy picture. Mr. Obama included plenty of concern for the hazards ahead, just not as much doom and gloom. Or at least, that was the snapshot poll reaction: A CNN survey taken immediately after the speech found that 85 percent of those who watched came away feeling more positive about America’s direction.
The thumbs up
Across some of the Patchwork Nation communities, the reaction was very positive to the urgency and hope in Obama’s words.
“The biggest hope I have following Obama’s speech is that the state of Oregon was listening,” e-mailed Allyson Longueira, editor of The News Guard in Lincoln City, Ore., which is our small-town “Service Worker Center.” “Despite the passage of the recovery plan last week, we’re still waiting to hear what exactly the Oregon state legislature is going to do with it. We could still face early school closures, and the situation keeps getting worse, not better.”
The businesses in Lincoln City have had a tough year, with some local favorites closing. And so the city, Ms. Longueira said, would find a lot to like in the idea of getting small-business loans flowing again. “We are heavy in small businesses, many of whom have had to cut employees, and some who have had to close their doors entirely,” she wrote.
Los Alamos, N.M., is our wealthy and well-educated “Monied ’Burb,” and it hasn’t seen a very hard time yet. There, Patchwork Nation blogger James Rickman thought Obama hit points that would go over well in the town.
“President Obama’s pledge to strengthen education in the country should play well here. As a highly educated community, most in Los Alamos understand the value of an education and an educated populace,” Mr. Rickman wrote in an e-mail. “The line about education being part of your responsibility as a citizen of this nation was great.”
The community, Rickman said, would also probably find a lot to like in Obama’s comments on his energy initiative – which could mean new jobs for the city’s national laboratory. Obama’s thoughts on healthcare appeared to be another plus. “As an affluent community, I would say that most citizens here have healthcare and realize and appreciate the importance of adequate access to healthcare,” he wrote.
Rickman said his faith in the president had begun to slip, but it was restored with the speech.
Some concerns
Still, some of our correspondents raised questions about what the president said and didn’t say.
Josh Wheeling, a Patchwork Nation blogger in Philadelphia, our big-city “Industrial Metropolis,” said the speech was “a welcome dose of optimism at a grim time.” Philadelphia, like other “Industrial Metropolis” communities, is dealing with large deficits at a time when urban poverty is increasing. But those problems need to be addressed more directly, Mr. Wheeling wrote.
“There was talk of making healthcare more accessible, investing in renewable energy, and providing tax cuts to the majority of Americans. Still, the speech did little to specifically address the pressing needs of a city like Philadelphia,” he wrote in his blog.
In Clermont, Fla., our aging “Emptying Nest” community, there was some outright skepticism, particularly about the president’s proposal to raise taxes on the wealthy.
Patchwork Nation blogger Ann Dupee wrote in her blog: “What went through my mind when President Obama spotlighted the young girl [from South Carolina], that she could rise above a difficult situation now and be anything she wanted to be – a doctor, lawyer, engineer – was that when she achieved this goal after years of intensive and expensive schooling, her reward will be that she better not make more than $250,000 a year because our government is going to tax her more and take her money because she is now ‘rich.’ Where is the incentive?”
Clermont is also going through hard times right now – with increased unemployment and foreclosure rates. In fact, “Emptying Nests” overall had the highest score in February’s Economic Hardship Index. This community type, which tends to be fairly socially conservative, voted strongly against Obama in November.
Places like Clermont may be unreachable for Obama, no matter how much he reaches out to them.
Next?
Tuesday night was about broad ideas, about Obama laying out a plan. The specifics will come – soon. His first budget will be released Thursday.
Despite the positive notes Obama hit Tuesday night, that document will undoubtedly cause concern for some. Optimism and hope are easier in broad-brush strokes than they are in specifics.
Still, if the reaction in polls and communities is any indication, those broad-brush strokes will carry some weight.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:41 am PST
Bailouts and stimulus’ will not fix the economy, because they have to be paid for by either raising taxes, borrowing more money, or printing more money. New jobs are created by very intelligent people who invent new products and services, and bring these new products to the marketplace, and hire the best employees.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:42 am PST
I would like to say to Ann Dupee and everyone else who thinks there is no incentive to succeed if the rich are taxed: Please! Less than 2% of American households earn more than $250,000 a year, yet clearly far more than 2% of Americans are doctors, lawyers, vets, etc. etc. If you do not think $250,000 a year is enough money to live a luxurious lifestyle, you have forgotten what a luxuries actually are. Weekly manipedi = luxury. BMW = luxury. Designer handbag = luxury. Eating out regularly = luxury. Yearly vacation = luxury.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:44 am PST
Oh… that poor little girl. How dare we take away any of her $250K. Does that person really think anyone in America buys that argument? Is her life really better now than it would be if she were making 250K? Gosh people suck.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:44 am PST
Really. What about the happiness of fulfilling one’s passion and desire to help others will be her reward, not making over $250k. I’d much rather make $60k a year for the rest of my life and be happy than make six, seven figures and be miserable, but “successful”. Like the others said, if you can’t live on that, you are living way beyond your means. It makes Americans sound like we have a sense of entitlement to not only expect to make that much, but get mad when the government wants to take its fair share of it for taxes.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:45 am PST
WHile everyone should pay their fair share, charity should come from the heart, not through government confiscation. That’s the real issue and many years ago people would take care of their own without intervention. Now, far too many older folks and disadvantaged are left to their own devices. It’s a society issue not a government issue.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:47 am PST
Let me get this straight…as Ann Dupee would have it, one of the goals of getting rich is to pay less taxes than others. Way to go Ann! Haven’t you had enough of the excesses of “greed is good”? Perhaps you’re one of those and don’t want to give up on the addiction!
February 25th, 2009 at 8:47 am PST
I don’t understand why some get so upset over raising taxes on those making over $250,000/yr. If we had a flat tax rate of 10% across the board they would be paying more anyway. And I don’t think the President is talking about taking a huge chunk of their hard-earned money - what I have heard is about a 2% increase. It seems as though the nay-sayers are all up in arms over the pork and waste. Don’t they realize that everyone who asks for this money has to put in a plan for how they will spend it. I don’t think that money is going to be thrown out to just anyone. Quit listening to all the so-called “pundits” on cable news shows and start doing your own research. I think we have elected a president who really IS going to be as honest and as forthright as he can be with the American public . . . he needs the chance to prove himself - my goodness, it has only been 30 days!!
February 25th, 2009 at 8:48 am PST
The big problem with the “hope” and new tax level is this. Because I am partner in a business that makes about a million a year, everyone assumes that I have money. My actual pay, expense re-imbursement, and “profit shares” from the last three years are smaller than my lowest paid hourly employee. Why? Because there has been such a down turn in business! In 2006, our highest income year, the partners actually made money. Since then if all my expenses are inlcuded I have lost money. Put over 100,000 miles on my personal vehicle and gotten just over $3000.00 for that! Imagine an employee driving their personal vehicle for that! It won’t happen. So now my firm is going to be taxed more; guess what that means! We will HAVE TO lay off workers to stay in business! Not to make a profit, but to break even! If the Great Obama had grown up in the US his entire life, maybe he would have learned more about the Great Depression and what accelerated it, and made it last longer. Spending and Tax increase laws! And that isn’t my opinion, it is a well recognized fact by economist throught the world. So maybe before you start making statements education of the entire picture may be useful.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:48 am PST
Ms Ann Dupee…just read once more what you typed…”if this girl”…and to make that if happen Obama is taking the right steps…your theory fails right on the first step because after 25 years “if” the girl gets a chance to come up and earn that much which is only possible because of Obama’s well planned strategies in reviving the economy of this country, then paying a little extra tax then others who dont make that much is not just common sense but a requirement laid down by these times…
February 25th, 2009 at 8:49 am PST
A small business person who claims on individual return (the most common way) grossing 250k a year is only personally netting 40k. That person will be run out of business by these “professor’s fantasies.” These initiatives of Obama are bound to destroy small business and entrepreneurship in the US, which is the goal of the socialist agenda of the Obama administration. Obama has no idea about business or investment, he’s an egghead professor.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:50 am PST
I am pretty sure that if you make 250K, and maybe only take home 170K, you still have plenty of incentive left when compared with the alternative, making 60K and bringing in 45K. Reminds me of the story a disgruntled driver makes. “If I keep letting people cut in front of me, before I know it I will end up back in my driveway”. No-one will ever bring home fewer dollars for making more taxable income.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:50 am PST
I reject the often repeated notion that simply because income over $250K will be taxed at a higher rate in the future, incentive to work hard and earn income above that amount will be lost. That simply is not the case, as was demonstrated during the Clinton administration. I am just so tired of hearing that specific argument.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:51 am PST
Are you people truly living in the real world? So, those who make more than 250k per year are usually the individuals who have sacrificed and toiled through 4-12 years of post college training; are usually the ones who still have a mountain of school debt because they didn’t qualify for any school vouchers; and most importantly, are usually the small business owners who CREATE jobs….. it makes logical sense that in order to stimulate a capitalist economy, those are the individuals who can increase the jobs available, which isn’t going to happen by raising their taxes and making it harder for them to turn a profit that enables them to grow, enabling them to hire…. get it? Not everyone can build bridges and tunnels (infrastructure, that is)
February 25th, 2009 at 8:52 am PST
If you think it is all about your own town or city, then you’re selfish. Obama can’t reach everyone and talk about every topic at once. He’s trying and people need to not give up on America itself. It will take time.
And plus, the raising taxes on the rich is good, in my opinion. You have all this money that you could put to use instead of keeping it all to yourself. Don’t be those pigs that are ruling companies, be a good citizen!
February 25th, 2009 at 8:52 am PST
Ann Dupree embodies typical “me-first” and “mineminemine” ideals that have put us here in the first place. She conveniently forgets that significant public resources would be required to support the girl in her schooling to pursue the life of a professional. Ironically, being a lawyer, doctor, engineer should be about the good you can do for other people, not the income. Colleges and hospitals that teach medicine are supported by those same tax dollars. I do laugh when the anti-tax mentality phrases the notion as “take [your] money away” as if the government was a bandit laying in wait under a bridge. Nothing like a “fiscal conservative” to believe they did it all themselves.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:53 am PST
People need to stop acting like the government is going to take all of the money you earn over $250,000. This is a percentage game and I think that most reasonable people agree with the concept behind a progressive tax system.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:54 am PST
“you can’t graciously accept the notion that because of your success you will be called on to help the nation “a little bit more” through higher taxes” I believe that very few of us can say that we’ve ever been employed by someone of low income. I am not wealthy, I stand to benefit from lower taxes on low income individuals, but I have the ability to look beyond myself and what the government can give me. Reagan lowered taxes and incidentally revenues to the government increased. I know that if businesses both large and small, which will include individuals making more that 250g a year, do well then I will continue to be employed and opportunities to advance my own situation will be more attainable as opposed to waiting for the government to take large amounts of money from businesses and these evil wealthy people, filter it through their own fingers and hand it back out.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:54 am PST
One of the main problems in the USA is wage inequity. There are lots of jobs. For $8.00-$12.00 an hour, all over the country. Problem is, you can’t buy a house, or most types of cars, or much else. Credit will solve this? I’ll pass, and try to live within my means. I’ve worked for 30 years, retrained, went to community collage for 3 years, full time, and I can’t break the $12.00 ceiling, no matter what I do. I don’t plan on retiring and I don’t have health insurance. I have dental insurance but I am struggling to even pay for all of the dental work I need. I try to save, but can’t make much headway there either. But luckily, the university where I work just gave our President a 11%, $50,000, raise to his $420,000 salary. Workers like myself haven’t had a cost of living raise in 3 years, are having to take unpaid days off, and some are being laid off. Until this kind of nonsence ends, I don’t have a good outlook for our country, or my life!
February 25th, 2009 at 8:54 am PST
If you think it is all about your own town or city, then you’re selfish. Obama can’t reach everyone and talk about every topic at once. He’s trying and people need to not give up on America itself. It will take time.
And plus, the raising taxes on the rich is good, in my opinion. You have all this money that you could put to use instead of keeping it all to yourself. Don’t be those pigs that are ruling companies, be a good citizen!
February 25th, 2009 at 8:55 am PST
SO let me guess. All you guys that support the tax raise on 250 K and above make way less?
Comme on I work hard for my money and i dont want to buy ACORN with it. I dont want to have these liberals have their way with my paycheck. When i studied hard in college and medical school nad came out with 250 000 of loans these guys were still smoking pot like they did in high school and had their college paid for.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:55 am PST
The assumption seems to be that those making over 250K (Upper class) now are paying the same percentage as those making less.
This isn’t true. The middle class are actually paying more.
If we all payed the same percentage with no loopholes, we could then focus on the entitlements and corporate welfare that are bogging us down.
Wow. I just used corporate speak effectively! (grin)
February 25th, 2009 at 8:57 am PST
We continue to “throw around” this $250,000 income figure as a benchmark of being rich. Earning $250,000 is not a bechmark of being rich but a benchmark of earning a lot of money. The key is how you earned that $250K. Did you earn it through investements, dividends, and interest? Or did you earn it by working six or seven days a week or by running your own business? And regardless of how you eraned it, what’s your net worth? That’s the measure of being rich; at least from a monetary standpoint. So let’s get off the $250K bandwagon as a mark of anything but earnings.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:58 am PST
Johnny,
Since when is “charity” defined as being strong-armed by the government to pay higher taxes? I thought charity is volunteering to give. Don’t you think corporations and the wealthy - who overwhelmingly contribute to charities compared to us regular Americans - will be less likely to donate to charity if more of their money goes to taxes?
Why should the government be allowed to define who is “wealthy?”
Zoe, small businesses claim themselves as Individuals for their taxes under Chapter Sub-S. So those businesses making over $250,000 have a decision to make: give it to an employee in terms of a paycheck or give it to Obama in terms of a tax. Not much of a choice, is it? Unless they want to go to jail. Raising taxes will cause unemployment to rise.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:58 am PST
Share your success? Doesn’t that sound a lot like communism? Why should someone be required to share their hard work? If someone works hard, why is it their responsibility to share their money? The whole point of moving to America is to work hard and improve, move up the ladder. I understand that humility and compassion. Many people choose to give their money to the charity of their choice, why is it the government’s responsibility to take the choice away?
February 25th, 2009 at 8:58 am PST
Borrowing trillions to pay for health care, education and green energy will do nothing to stimulate the economy .
It will only give the radical lefties, who pay for nothing anyway, a rush.
Ronald Reagan taught us how to get out of a recession. He dropped taxes on everyone and that move gave us the biggest economic expansion this country ever had.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:59 am PST
My name is Nnanna and i am a native of Nigeria, it is with great pleasure that we have a president like Obama who does not fear or panic in times of uncertainty and hardship like we all are experiencing during this recession.
Barack Obama speach last night was awesome and everyone who watch and listen carefully regain hope and courage that in no distant time United States Of America will have a new direction.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:01 am PST
I too am bothered by the punitive tax ideas on the so-called rich. I don’t make anywhere near 250k but the idea that if I do make more money a larger percentage of it will be taken because someone thinks I owe society for my success is just unamerican. If you want a progressive tax system just charge everyone the same percentage… the “Rich” will still pay more than the poor, but at least everyone gives up the same share of their income… you know, like Marx said… “from each according to his abilities…”
February 25th, 2009 at 9:01 am PST
Please! Somebody explain to the President and the other Bush haters that amplifying consumer fears only serves to beat down consumer confidence. And, just in case they aren’t paying attention, when you beat down consumer confidence, you create (or in this case extend) a recession. For two years, President Bush did his best to rally the team (consumers) to do their part and hold up our economy. But greed by some and fear mongering by the Democrats who were determined to take back control, convinced a nation that recession was inevitable. In times like these, you need a leader who can rally the team, not one that tries to convince them that there is a monster in the closet. Tell a child there is a monster in the closet long enough and they’ll never get out of bed. We need our children (the consumers) to get out of bed and begin again the process of doing their part.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:02 am PST
Jeb, if you have such a problem with that then maybe you are in the wrong business. You must be doing something wrong here if your business makes sales of a million a year. Even if you have 10 employee’s you should be able to make enough to be making a profit. Maybe you should lower your employees wages and develop a new way of business. Don’t compare the Great Depression to this time with unemployment at 7% compared to 22% during the Great Depression this is far less of a trying time.
As I see this without more regulation on BANKS (Even the bank I work for) there is still more free fall to come. Throwing money at the problem sure won’t help, Obama can say all he wants without a great plan to help insure people such as the CEO of Citibank developing a ploy to get millions but take on twice as much in risky mortgages just to have the government bail them out.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:03 am PST
Good Job Obama, please keep the good work going on, our good lord will surely bless you.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:04 am PST
My wife and I have not received any check from the goverment since W started sending out tax checks because we make too much money. Does that bum me out, no. Do I think it’s right, you have to pick a stopping point. Would I like that extra money, sure. Anyone who complains because they make over 250,000 a year and now have to pay a bit more taxes, is an idiot. We fall into that category, and I believe that not everyone who makes that kind of money feel as Ann Dupee does. Many do, but not all of us. I don’t believe in helping out people who will not help themselves or paying for someone who will not do anything to make their situation better, but helping those who are trying and having trouble, well, that’s just being a human being and caring. That’s my 2 cents.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:05 am PST
It is a false notion that businesses are started by “very intelligent” people. Businesses are started by everyone and anyone. Inventions are made by intelligent people, some who are very smart. Products are brought to market by business people and marketers (salesmen). Services are brought to market by hard working people just like you and me.
Usually the very intelligent (Ie. Einstein, Steven Hawking) have little to do with bringing products or services to market. The bottom line is most small businesses are created by people with a skill who for some reason decide not to work for someone else. To create small businesses, we need to give people a skill and fund development so new products are created for them to service or market.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am PST
Instead of “God bless America”, I say “God, at some point, find us bless-able.”
Romans 1
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am PST
OK, so I work my cheeks off all my life to make 250K and don’t want to pay 50% (i’m almost there and pay 45%). I guess I’m the bad guy…so be it…but one thing to remember…it’s MY money, not yours, not uncle SAM’s and I should have a choice to be charitous. Any bafoon should be able to conceptualize that if you punish (by taking half) anyone who climbs the ladder of success then it makes no sense to climb it…a nation of mediocrity and underacheivers…sometimes the tax the rich mantra (as if $250k is RICH granted not hurting but far from RICH) makes me want to puke.
You don’t really have to tax the REAL RICH more, just close the loopholes that are put there by both parties to save their own cheeks. No one in congress is poor…I guarantee it.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:07 am PST
Is Ms Dupee one of the private sector folks that Governor Jindal was referring to as part of his proposed solution?? When I hear comments like hers and read about the selfish acts of greed that the heads of our largest financial corporations perpetuate in the midst of this crisis I find it difficult to embrace the idea that the good will of Americans combined with corporate benevolence should be the driving force for moving this nation out of economic hardship.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:07 am PST
JEB, if your business isn’t making a profit, maybe you’re not a good businessman and your business should fail. Your argument sounds like a request for the government to bail you out, since you can’t seem to make money through your own wits. Not that every business makes money, since many are designed to be tax shelters.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:07 am PST
Johnnyr51 Says:
February 25th, 2009 at 8:34 am EST “Please. If you make over $250,000 a year and you can’t graciously accept the notion that because of your success you will be called on to help the nation “a little bit more” through higher taxes, then you are either a miserly old curmudgeon or a greedy capitalist pig. Either way, it’s not about incentive to make more money, its about the incentive to share your success more, i.e, charity, humility and compassion - remember??”____________________________________________________________
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs - Karl Marx__________________________________________________________________________
So what day did you become a Communist? since you just quoted the founding tenants of Communism. Class envy, forced “charity”, etc._____________________________________________________________________________
The scary part is, this is what ever Democrat espouses now. It is no longer the Democrat party - it is merely a front for a Communist party.____________________________________________________________________________
Funny how studies show that the wealthiest and even poor Republicans are the most generous Americans and Democrats give the least to charity but want to rob everyone else at gunpoint. This is in keeping with the criminal corrupt mentality of the Democrats._____________________________________________________________________
Who gets to decide what the magic number is? One man? That’s not America, that is something sliding into totalitarianism._____________________________
Why $250,000? You don’t NEED $250K to live on. You only need $30K to live on. We should just arbitrarily make the “magic number” $30K._______________________________________________________________________
What will happen is that over time that $250K will slowly come downwards as the Democrat Kommunist party slowly switches America over to dependency on the government for all their needs___________________________________________
“We cannot expect the Americans to jump from straight from capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism until they suddenly awake one day to find they have Communism.” — Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev, 1965____________________________________________________________________________
God you Democrats are friggin scary because Communism is scary and that’s what you espouse.___________________________________________________________
February 25th, 2009 at 9:09 am PST
Why should my taxes be used to bailout someone who failed to realize that $35,000 per year wasn’t enough to handle a $500,000 mortgage. The democrats want everyone to have a home, free education, medical care, and all the other good things in life on my dime. They cry about every gallon of jet fuel burned by corporations, but they burn plenty them selves flying to Rome etc. when they should be in the country earning there salaries.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:10 am PST
Go Ann!
There are a lot of us free-marketers’ out here. What all these others really want is a socialist utopia. I’ve seen the lofty (and evil) ideal of socialism, fairness, equality and such the like lived out in society. When I went to Russia just after the fall of commusnism, I saw equality–the equality of poverty and misery. The only way a government can create equality is to become abusive and top-heavy. It is better to have rich and poor, than equality and tyrany. The government ought to punish those who aquire their wealth in an unjust way, but it ought not punish incentive. If a person works hard, spends those sleepless nights thinking about business decisions, puts up with all the red-tape, etc. he is entitled to the fruits of his labors. I find it repulsive that we would punish such individuals. Do I think they should give? Absolutely-of their own free will. An individual who makes a lot of money, only to spend it all on himself is indeed selfish, but we create a monster in government if we give it the power to be “generous” with the labor of my hands. Remember the little red hen? If we really want to turn this society into that barnyard of loser animals- just another socialist haven- then we will become like Russia. The government owns the businesses. It pretends to pay the people. And they pretend to work.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:11 am PST
Please be aware that the $250K threshold is for for FAMILIES. You only need to go as far as the White House web site:
“FAMILIES making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s […] no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s.”
If you own your own business and you only pay yourself $40,000, you’re taxes will not go up. And over and over again in this speech, the President cited supporting our innovative industries as a vital part of our future. More from the web site about the tax plan, which will:
“Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.”
February 25th, 2009 at 9:11 am PST
A number of you that are arguing against raising taxes for those making more than $250,000 a year are basing your argument on the thought that your “take-home pay” would be considerably less than $250,000. Clearly, you have never filed a schedule C or filed taxes on business income. Higher taxes on those making over $250,000 (BTW, it’s only a 4% tax increase), would be for those making $250,000 NET. If your business grosses $250,000, but you only take home $40K, then you’ll only pay the tax rate (and taxes) on 40K. Expenses are deducted from your income. So we are talking about higher taxes on those actually “taking-home” $250,000. It’s also important to note that if you’re smart, that can be $250,000 AFTER paying for retirement, healthcare, childcare, etc. Less than 1% of Americans make over $250,000. We are talking about a very small number of businesses. Furthermore, business hire people based on whether or not an extra person will generate more profit, not on whether they’ve got some extra money in their pocket (e.g., from a tax cut). The republican argument for tax cuts only helps the rich, not small businesses. It’s “voodoo” trickle-down economics all over again.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:11 am PST
If you think $250,000 isn’t enough to live on, then you obviously have a problem. Our great COMRADE PRESIDENT isn’t just talking about taxing the rich. he’s talking about RE-DISTRIBUTING all of our money for those that are “LESS FORTUNATE”. See lazy, ignorant, addicted to drugs, willing to live off money that they didn’t make (i.e. WELFARE). While there is a need for the welfare system to help those that CAN NOT help themselves. It’s not there for those that WILL NOT help themselves. I work for a living, pay my bills and support my family. To be told I make too much money and have to give it to someone that is lazy and expects a handout “because they were never picked for the baseball team, They were never picked for the cheer leading squad, or homecoming queen, is an insult to me, my family, and this Nation as a whole. I have one one thing to say to these people. Quit wallowing in your stupid self pity, get up off your lazy butts, and get a job, any job. You have to EARN the high paying ones, they are not OWED TO YOU! The world doesn’t OWE you ANYTHING. You have to earn it for yourself and your family. The only thing that the WORLD OWES you is air to breath. What you make from there is YOUR RESPONSEABILITY, Not mine or my family’s.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:12 am PST
If Americans say they got the more hope and optimism from Mr. Obama’s speech last evening, they inferred more than they heard. That’s OK; it’s a sign of good political oratory. But Mr. O is being disingenuous in repeating his oft-asserted “no tax increase and even a decrease” for those earning less than $250,000. Even accepting that he must limit his assertion to this plan, this year, and only to federal taxes, it’s still verbal chicanery. There are not enough Americans earning more than $250K that can be taxed enough to offset the costs. Besides, states and local communities will be/are being forced to raise taxes to offset the lost direct and indirect income they would have gotten via the federal taxes that will supposedly be cut or not raised. In short, our household earns far less than $250,000 yet we recognize that our taxes are going up. Soon. And in 2011, they’re going up again, thanks to sunsetting tax cuts. BTW: Why is college “more unaffordable” now than it was eight years ago? A main (but hardly the sole) driver: More Americans are going to college. The law of supply and demand requires costs to go up when there’s more demand for the same resources. It was a good speech, but really: We can have hope, optimism AND intellectual honesty.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:14 am PST
“No new taxes”…hmmmmm…..where have we heard that before?
February 25th, 2009 at 9:14 am PST
To sum up the speech, he said: I will solve all of America’s problems in six days, and on the seventh day I will rest.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:14 am PST
I agree with Ann Dupee 100%. My wife and I worked very hard to earn our Doctorate in both of our respective medical professions. Yes we are very generous with the money that we make, you could even use words like charity, humility and compassion when describing our character. I am pretty sure, however, that being “called on the help the nation”, “the incentive to share your success”, charity, humility and compassion are individual choices that one should make and NOT have your now socialist/communist-ideology driven president force feed you and tell you how much you like it. Given the choice I would rather be less financially stable and let someone else pay for MY share of taxes and provide ME with free healthcare than to be the one buying rounds for everyone else who chooses to be an underachiever. When you find a spare minute you should read up on bar stool economics and see how it really works.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:15 am PST
I think I heard a former president chuckle at the “no new taxes” promise…lol..
February 25th, 2009 at 9:17 am PST
Gov. Jindal’s reply makes him an Indian Mr. Rogers. http://pbskids.org/rogers/player/rogersmessage.html
February 25th, 2009 at 9:18 am PST
It appears that the ones against the increase makes more than $250,000 and everyone for the increase makes less. All those “small business owners” that are complaining typically have the benefit of writing off most of their expenditures so don’t complain that your take home pay is small, you write off most of your purchases! For those who complain about toiling for years to get where they are, most of you don’t have caps in your field of work. For those who spend their lives making $40,000 to $60,000 a year that is the most they will ever make in their lifetime simply because the field they work in won’t pay higher than that. The income of lawyers, investors, doctors, business owners only grows with the years. Stop complaining that you might not be able to buy that new yacht this year and think about the guy that built your house, paved your driveway, or is building that boat of yours with his own two hands. Don’t think that they didn’t work harder than you. You may have worked “hard” for 8 years but they are going to be working hard for the next 40.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:20 am PST
I am crying croc tears for your small business and you. If you’re not turning a profit, maybe you’re going to have to ‘lay off’ workers because your company doesn’t profit enough to afford them and shouldn’t have hired them in the first place.
Owning your own business is a privilege and a choice in America. You’re supposed to work your heart out and use your own vehicle (which of course, you write off, gas and monthly payments, which the rest of us can’t). It’s riskier than other jobs, but obviously has perks. If you don’t like paying back your share into the system as a business, then don’t own one. Work for the Man like the rest of us.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:20 am PST
I am tired of you people constantly blaming Bush for everything…Katrina, Financial Crisis, Global Warming. Come on get over your loss in 2000 and 2004. What a bunch of whiners! Snopes “Credit Canard” and you will see that Bush did indeed attempt to regulate but was shot down. So tired of this liberal bias everywhere. Quit yer whining! Oh by the way did you see the “global warming satellite” that crashed yesterday? Bush caused that and AlGore is upset. We need a replay of the launch.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:25 am PST
By just about any measure, I’m pretty well off. The reason I’m pretty well off is that this country has been very good to me. Yeh - my husband and I saw opportunities and we worked hard. But lots of people do that and they are far from being well off. I should be taxed more than those people.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:26 am PST
my husband and i have 250K worth of graduate school debt. presently, my husband works 80-100 hours a week and makes a large income. we know we are fortunate, and give a lot of our time, money and resources away to on our own volition, not because the government asks us to. last year, close to 40 percent of his monthly income was taken out, and when tax season was upon us, the government wanted another 30K. we are happy to help our neighbors, community and country at large. it’s just frusterating to see him work so hard to have it taken rather than to have the joy of working hard and being able to freely give. we both voted for obama because neither of us wanted our vote to come from our pocket, but i realize that is easy to say when one lives comfortably. we are supportive of what ever is best for our country, and will pay our taxes without whining or arguing….i just really want people to know that not all of us in the upper 2 percent are curmudgeons or people who don’t put in hours upon hours of work just like the rest of the workers. it would be best if we could all take care of our neighbors with a glad heart and stop being selfish.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:26 am PST
Obomus will save us all. I know it. He has a plan of un-plan. A design of re-design. The all-star smoke and mirrors-traveling-salvation show. The American public overwhelming voted for change, and when the great Obomus is finished, you will look into your pocket and hear the jingle of change; because that is all you’ll have left. And I surely feel more comfortable that Joe is looking over the finer details of the stimulus package. Joe has spent more than half his life in the senate, thus is partially responsible for where we are today.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:30 am PST
If your motivation to becoming a doctor is getting filthy rich, stay out of the med field, please.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:32 am PST
Econ 101 for conservatives. That 250k is TAXABLE income. After loopholes, itemizing, etc, one would have to make 400k per year to have 250k in taxable income.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:36 am PST
Overall it was a positive speech with bold initiatives. There is one point that I was confused on. President Obama claimed he doesn’t want a bigger government yet taking 40% controlling interest in banks (I believe the news story was about Citi Bank) is bigger government. Thomas Jefferson stated he was against big government too. Depsite this I support the President and look hopeful we will all prosper.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:36 am PST
so many here are just throwing out the word socialism as a negative… you guys are the problem for being so closed minded… this also goes out to the lefties out there who think that the word socialism is the answer… you are equally to blame…
some even say the problem is that some want a “socialist utopia”… yeah a failed utopia is a problem… but shouldn’t everyone want a utopia… socialist or capitalist… **** even a utopia spawned from complete anarchy would be great… why?… because happiness had by all is a pretty cool thing…
awe… people making 250k will have to pay a higher tax rate… listen for it… that’s the world’s tiniest violin… the people spouting garbage about this plan are talking about it like once someone makes over 250k they will be thrown into prison… like they rolled three doubles in a row in monopoly… taxes work as a percentage… the more you make, the more you have, even after taxes…
you can make the biggest fuss in the world about universal health care or “socialized medicine” (my skin crawls)… but try making those arguments to all the people of this country that don’t have health insurance… just try to win that argument… we are the only industrialized country that does not have universal health care… does that mean we are smarter than the rest, or does it mean we are missing something… let’s ere on the side of probability here…
the rich are talking about taxes like it’ll make them poor, but how many rich even know what it is like to be poor… I gaurantee none, because they wouldn’t be paying some of their workers dirt…
February 25th, 2009 at 9:37 am PST
kenntha said “One of the main problems in the USA is wage inequity… the university where I work just gave our President a 11%, $50,000, raise…”
And what is the cause of wage inequity? A free market for university presidents? No, university wages are set by politicians and their lackeys each one justifying the other’s wage scale.
——-
For those posters who say complaining about a 2% tax shows a mean spirit then what does the actual tax cheating of Obama’s cabinet members say about his cabinet? Scoundrels all.
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Making everyone a college graduate will do nothing more than lower the prevailing wage for college graduates. There won’t be any greater wealth to share. Wealth comes from creative acts not legislation.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:38 am PST
Check you facts m griffiths…largest tax increase in history was during the Reagan administration…
I enjoy reading notes from folks who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about…
February 25th, 2009 at 9:38 am PST
Just think how different this country would be if folks bragged on how much taxes they paid instead of how their football team played.
There are a lot of things out of whack in this country (even as great as it is) and I am encouraged with the straight talk we are hearing from this administration.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:40 am PST
The problem with your logic Ms Dupee is the percentage of your living expenses to your 250K pales in comparison to lower income earners. My health insurance expense alone is 18% of my 60K income (and that’s after my company pays 50%!). When people start decrying the perils of socialized medicine my hand is the first one up volunteering to push the plunger to blow up the whole system and start over. Its a mess. And its a long term nightmare. The president is right. We sacrifice long term stability for short term gains like little children who know no better. We’ve become greedy and fat. Everyone wants to fix something as long as it doesn’t cost them anything. The only difference is we now have a president with the courage to stand up and tell you the ugly truth. The fix is going to sting all of us. But if we can just get out of our own way, stop the foot dragging and take the medicine, the future prospects of this country and our children will begin to improve dramatically.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:41 am PST
ROFL - my comment wasn’t liked and removed!!! Unbeleivable! What wasn’t liked, the reference to a capitalist pig or mentioning the concept of charity??
And this one has 4 “inappropriates”…???
What?
This forum is a joke - what are you readers, humorless Sunday school teachers or in fact, greedy capitalist pigs? Inappropriate? rofl…
February 25th, 2009 at 9:42 am PST
For those that claim anyone making less than $250,000 is an underachiever, lazy, bum, or whatever term you want to use than you are indeed selfish and greedy. You are all whining like little kids “MINE! MINE! MINE!”. For those who say that it’s only 1% so it won’t matter then you don’t realize that you are better off than 99% of the country and you should be more generous. You may do donations and charity but most likely only for the tax write-offs. Your tax money doesn’t go from your pocket to Joe bum on the corner. It goes to pay for the schools that educate children to become lawyers, doctors, and business owners (the 1%) as well as the other 99% of the country that needs an education. It pays for the construction of the roads you drive your FOREIGN car on. The person that makes $50k a year that just remodeled your kitchen is an underachiever? No, you don’t smell like roses. I make $70,000 a year and have 33% taken out in taxes. I own a nice home, two cars (Ford and Dodge), take trips to Mexico, Paris, and the like on a yearly basis, and eat out regularly at “nicer” places (no fast food here!). So don’t say that $250,000 isn’t enough. At my salary I would be willing to pay 50% in taxes if 99% of the people in the country made less than me.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:48 am PST
I thought it was a great presentation that was both reasoned and realistic. The hallmark was the idea that those who truly love America will work together to make it a better country for all of us.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:48 am PST
It seems to me that there’s a lot of commentary on here bashing Ann Dupee. She is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT in her assertion that adding more taxes to people who bring in more money is a DISINCENTIVE to work harder and to make more. But it’s also an incentive to hide your income or find loopholes in the tax system. Anyone who made comments about living a lavish lifestyle are only engaging in class warfare. The Democrats are famous at inciting class warfare and Obama is no different: “Raise taxes on the rich”. Today they have decided that the rich earn $250K or more. Soon the limit will change to $200K, then $150K…..until they start comparing us to the rest of the world and say that compared to other nations, we are ALL RICH, so everyone needs to pay more.
Too many AMERICANS are getting a free ride in this country, we should ALL pay some kind of tax. We ALL share ownership in this country (not just the top 2% earners) so we should all make an investment in what we all own. By spreading the taxes around to EVERYONE the sole burden of paying for the recovery will not be placed solely on the top 2% but on EVERYONE!!
February 25th, 2009 at 9:54 am PST
Get a great education cause you can become anything you want and the Govt will help you…..ooohhh wait you work,you pay your bills, you pay your taxes, not defaulting on your mortgage…we cant help you, your not a screw up. But since you are smart and got that education and do what every Amarican should do we are going to taxes the **** out of you, but please keep investing and build that small business….ooohhh wait again…your business makes to much…please pay more taxes…and every employee you have needs to have insurance and a pension…ooohhh you now cant make a profit…please borrow money now to pay those taxes and premiums…and if you go into default its ok there is alway welfare…damn you made more than we can now give you….what a joke we are becoming. Maybe i should move to Gaza 900 million American taxpayer dollars going there while we clap for these idiots in congress.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:55 am PST
I find it humorous that the ones that usually complain about tax increases are the ones that are living off government aid, or are jealous of those who have succeeded. Instead of trying to tax the “rich” why don’t we just impose tax on those who don’t pay taxes or cut some of the socialistic funding for people who are to lazy to go out and get a real job and take care of themselves. Not that it will ever happen since, nobody seems to have the ability any more to take personal responsibility for their own lives.
Scary to think that most Americans are lemmings now willing to follow Obama off the cliff and lead this country into further muck and mire. But its probably easier that way, because in the end they can blame someone else rather than being responsible.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:57 am PST
Don’t you guys get it yet! Obama makes speeches and then does whatever he wants. And socialism isn’t great. I’ve lived in Canada, a mild socialist country, for nearly 8 years. I know what it’s like for the government to control segments of the society and I tell you today you don’t want this. Government health care means that a bureaucrat will decide who gets treated and who won’t. I saw a friend die because a Canadian bureaucrat said he didn’t need a CAT scan - he had a brain tumor and died before he could get them to do anything. I was sick for 3 months and no one would do anything - no prescriptions, no tests, etc. I came back to California, went to a doctor, he ran tests, found out I had kidney problems, received treatment, and was better in 2 weeks. When I left Canada the doctors were on strike because they wanted more money for their pay. Yes, all you doctors out there, the government will own your paycheck.
Canadians were running to the border to buy food and gasoline because the government had high prices attached to them. How about that, the US was cheaper for food and gasoline. No wonder the Canadian Government hates us. Well, at least they did. Now we’re socialists, we’re going to have the same problems and, so, maybe they’ll like us.
All I can say is we are sniveling fools. We are a weak, sinful people who have forgotten where we came from and are lost in the darkness of poor me, giveme want I want attitudes. My ancestors, who came on the mayflower, are definitely rolling in their graves.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:57 am PST
First of all, why must the rich pay our way? Why are we punishing the people who invest in businesses that give us jobs?
Why are we spending on a stimulus that rewards those who made stupid decisions,or greedy dedisions? I played by the rules yet I am being taxes to solve someone else’s disregard for the rules.
It isn’t selfish to want to keep what you earn. I will glady help those I know are having a hard time through no fault in their decision making, but the government forcing me to help people like Octomom who was irresponsible, and completely selfish makes me furious.
Illegal immigrants must be deported. Why we are rewarding them with legal status when millions PLAY BY THE RULES, are educated and productive wait in line on foreign soil to get legal status to come here? Stop the birthright of citizenship to illegal activity. I am tired of subsidizing them.
Tired of paying increase school taxes to have kids come out knowing how to hug trees but cannot make change of a dollar or tell time without a digital watch.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:58 am PST
“A small business person who claims on individual return (the most common way) grossing 250k a year is only personally netting 40k.”
That is not the most common way, it is the laziest way. I have never known a successful small business person that did that. It is very to set your business up and pay yourself a salary. You do not pay taxes on your business gross. You pay taxes on your gross less all expenses (including your salary). Many business end up paying no taxes at all.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:02 am PST
The Republicans are so against the raising of taxes, especially those in Congress. The U.S. government get the majority of its money from tax revenues. If taxes are not raised, the U.S. government has less money, people in Congress will not get their big raises and expense accounts. President Obama is trying real hard and we have to be patient and give him some time to work. He has only been in office for a little over a month; we gave George W. Bush 8 years.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:06 am PST
All of you that think all this stuff is great are in for a very big and ugly surprise.Outside of all the evil people who earn over 250K, the save the world from climate change actions will devastate the buying power of everyone, with the most profound effect on those at the lowest end of the income chain. The tax rebates here will be dwarfed by dramatic increases in energy costs which will raise the price of neccessities/essentials most profoundly.Gas, for your car, heat for your home,the price of food and anything else that gets ’shipped” to market.Those who buy Mink Coats and BMW’s will weather the storm but those scrapping to put food on the table won’t.
Cheer all you want..in the near future you’ll be moaning..big time…
February 25th, 2009 at 10:06 am PST
The speech was very good and all of us have to do our part and be patient and trust God. We are all in this together.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:07 am PST
To me the incentive of making more money would be to help those around me. Instead of having lunch at that expensive restaurant wouldn’t you feel better if you bought a $100 suit for someone lesser off so they would look nice at their job interview? Wouldn’t you feel better off if you paid for someones $200 car repair that they can’t afford? Rich doesn’t mean money, rich only comes from the heart. I don’t mean doing these things and finding a way to write it off on your taxes. The nation as a whole is broken and everyone is a lemming. There are many people that feel it but the outspoken ones are the contributors to the problem. Leave your television off for a week, don’t listen to any news reports on the radio, don’t read the newspaper, don’t go online to check the latest headlines. After a week of no mass-media you will realize that you have your life back.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:16 am PST
How does the ‘hard working’ doctor or lawyer earn his wealth? By charging hundreds of dollars per hour to his patients or clients who make $12 per hour themselves (working just as hard). How does the little guy move up the ladder when he must pad the ‘professional’s’ pockets with his own hard earned money? The retailer or manufacturer would have no wealth at all if the less fortunate didn’t purchase their products. We say that it’s not fair to expect us to contribute to our country’s success even when our own success has been borne on the backs of the people we look down on.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:41 am PST
Please don’t show ignorance by even hinting that the reason for the economic crisis is a result of republican administration, Mr. Ruiz. This took some years to get into, much longer than eight. Ignorance is what continues to foster such a belief. This, my friend, is a result of sheer greed by banks and continued tax credits to companies with plants overseas, in addition to illegals continuing to steal American jobs. A little bit of research always helps before you comment. By the way, LEAD is the proper form of the word not LEADED.
February 25th, 2009 at 2:51 pm PST
Mike Barber- Your tax money isn’t going to them. They lost their houses last year or in ‘07. That’s why there are so many thousands of foreclosed houses on the market already.
The people losing their houses now are the ones who had no problem paying their mortgage right up until they got laid off or need to move but can’t sell their house because there’s no market and their house lost 30% of it’s value putting them underwater on their loan.
February 25th, 2009 at 5:51 pm PST
Ok, which one of you actually brings in over $250k? I have a business that easily brings in that much, like another guy on this board states, but I’m not such a fool as to claim that on an individual return. Seriously, that’s about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
I pay myself ~50k. My company owns my house. I drive my company car. My company owns my vacation homes. I even have a pension fund for myself and my employees - and I can do just about whatever I want with 30% of that.
By the time all is said and done, my accountant (who worked for the IRS for 28 years) has me paying less taxes than my friend who does telemarketing.
Honestly, the only people who are brining in more than 250k/year of declared income are people who are either too stupid/lazy to manage their accounts, or simply have far too much money to hide.
The only people who seem to complain about this are those who wish they were richer and are scared that they might lose some if they were. How many people here earning $50k would turn down a job making $250k if they heard that they might have to kick up an additional 2%. Anyone? I thought not.
Even the bizarre notion that people earning that much are actually driven by money is simply insane. Once you’re up beyond the 200k point, it is about power. Plain and simple. Why in the world do you think so many politicians were rich to begin with. It isn’t because you need money to run for office (although it sure makes it easier), it is because you need a goal. Money isn’t enough.
Honestly, I used to vote republican, but this idiocy really has to stop. I can hardly bear to be in the same room with some of these clueless children.
February 26th, 2009 at 7:02 am PST
What an interesting post and comments. What I liked about President Obama’s speech is that he is expressing positive views and giving hope to the population. Sure the letter from the girl is a bit cheesy and possibly not genuine but the sentiments are what those who are struggling need to hear.
It’s true that most people who earn massive incomes only use the income to keep score not as a motivating source, a bit like playing monopoly. I believe that the economic downturn will be the making of the legitimacy of the internet as another tool for small business to make money, even in their local area.
February 27th, 2009 at 5:19 pm PST
I have over 200k dollars in Med School debt. I will be graduating my residency after 10 years of training with little pay, and this tax increase to 40% of my income. It will be hard to pay back loan from my hard work and dedication to better the medical field. I understand that higher incomes pay more tax, but come on 40%!
What it boils down to is charities will get less, because the people who donate are getting more taken out of their taxes and will have less to give away to the causes that they choose to support. The Charities will be the ones who will lose out in this case.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:57 pm PDT
April 11th, 2009 at 3:13 am PDT
April 13th, 2009 at 2:56 pm PDT