Obama wins Round 2 in Patchwork Nation as experience disappears as an issue
Dante Chinni
Posted: 10.08.2008 / 7:18 AM PDT
Every four years, the American news media look to the presidential debates as seminal events. Reporters talk about “knock-out punches” and “game-changers” and prepare for big moments – that rarely arrive.
The effects that debates have on presidential elections tend to be smaller. They usually affirm views or sometimes ease concerns about candidates. But there aren’t many “you’re no Jack Kennedy” or “there you go again” moments.
And there weren’t many last night in Nashville, Tenn., in the town-hall-style debate between Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain. Ahead of the debate, the prevailing thought was that Senator McCain needed one of those game-changers and that all Senator Obama needed was a steady performance that avoided any serious gaffes, a much lower bar.
The flash polls taken immediately after the debate showed Obama cleared the bar and then some: Both the CBS and CNN polls, as well as the focus groups various news organizations had put together, indicated that Obama had “won,” however that is defined.
Over the past few days, the tone of the presidential race has grown a bit nasty. The McCain campaign, which had promised to change the topic away from the economy, spent much of its time talking about Obama’s qualifications and his ties to William Ayers, who in the 1960s co-founded the Weather Underground, which claimed responsibility for several bombing attacks. The Obama team in response criticized McCain’s people for avoiding the economy – and then talked about the Arizona senator’s past with the Keating Five scandal.
But no fireworks of substance materialized on stage, and viewers in our Patchwork Nation communities largely gave the night to Obama.
“Obama seemed to maintain his advantage,” wrote Don King, a blogger in Sioux Center, Iowa (our agricultural “Tractor Country” community). “I doubt that this debate changed many minds, and some are still waiting for some ‘breakthrough’ or epiphany to help them decide.”
Mr. King also wrote that the presidential race in his conservative town is not exciting many people, a bad sign for McCain. “As heavily Republican the community is, McCain does not seem to generate excitement, and it is not a likely place for Obama to have much support, when some people still ask if America is ready for an African-American president and he doesn’t seem to be pushing any buttons for the more liberal evangelical voters,” King wrote.
Up in Lincoln City, Ore. (our less wealthy “Service Worker Center”), local Web entrepreneur Ann Murdock thought Obama had a good night. “Obama had relevant answers for the middle class and was very presidential,” Ms. Murdock wrote. “He is holding his own and then some.”
In Nixa, Mo. – our socially conservative “Evangelical Epicenter” – some saw improvement in McCain’s performance, if not a dramatic victory.
“McCain did better than I thought he would,” wrote Kristi Bohannon, owner of a local Sonic fast-food franchise. “Obama stumbled a bit more than I expected him to.”
She continued, “We watched the debate as a family – husband and two of my daughters. We all agreed both went in circles on important issues – health care and energy – and should have been more specific.”
After the debate, some analysts noted that McCain left the debate site quickly, which some of our viewers noted as well. James Rickman, a Patchwork Nation blogger in Los Alamos, N.M. (our wealthy, well-educated “Monied ’Burb” community), watched the debate on C-SPAN, which often broadcasts the milling around before and after events.
“It was weird how quickly McCain and his wife flew the coop,” Mr. Rickman wrote. “A president is supposed to be a Man of The People, someone who can inspire America. Seeing Obama roaming the hall and talking to everyone makes him blow away the competition in those two departments.”
For all we’re hearing from our communities, what may be most notable is what’s absent: any discussion of “experience” as an issue.
Throughout the spring and summer, the “E” word came up a lot in our conversations with voters in person, on the phone, and through e-mail. It was seen as a big advantage for McCain.
But after two presidential debates and with one month left in the campaign, it has all but vanished from the discussion.
That may be a function of several things. The economy, not McCain’s strong suit, has come to dominate the race. The arrival of Gov. Sarah Palin on the Republican ticket may have blunted the strength of the argument for McCain. And the major theme of this race – “change” – is not really about experience.
Whatever the reason, now that voters have seen Obama and McCain on stage together twice, it doesn’t appear most of them are thinking about or focused on an experience gap.
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October 8th, 2008 at 8:55 am PDT
I am surprised so many persons are claiming the candidates are not being specific. I’ve watched the same debates. Sen.McCain and Senator Obama were both specific.They spoke about their priorities. We heard about the war, education, taxes, healthcare, and the economy. They shared their intent about all these things. Now ask yourself did you like their answers, sit down, meditate for the next 25 days, go to the polls and vote. It is time for this country to stop saying are we ready for a woman, isn’t he too old, or are we ready for an african-american president. Look at what you want the president to do for our country and vote for the person who you believe will get it done. Both claim they are Christians so throw that argument out. VOTE.
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October 8th, 2008 at 8:57 am PDT
It is amazing to me how many people really think that the executive branch of our government actually runs the country. Let’s not forget that the legislative branch does as much or more to run the direction of this country than the executive branch. Our voting these days is done on nothing more than popularity contests. Emotions trump logical thought. How sad we have gotten.
October 8th, 2008 at 8:57 am PDT
Frannk Primeau I had to laugh at your statement, for I had the very same epiphany! Also, I was pleased to note Obama mentioned education and referred to the next generation. There is more a sense of hope for me when I hear and see him speak.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:00 am PDT
I supported McCain in 2000.
In the debate, he repeated many of the same old talking points. The “Obama voted to raise taxes 94 times” claim has been disproven. The “I will order the purchase of defaulted properties” claim seems to indicate that McCain doesn’t realize that the option is already part of the bailout. And health care, McCain has no clue. It is clear he has never had to struggle to get it.
Businesses don’t like McCain’s solution, and economists agree that it will raise costs for the average person.
McCain is out of touch, yesterday’s solutions won’t necessarily work for tomorrow’s problems. It is obvious McCain is seeing the world through his war and military experience. It’s time to turn the page and look for solutions for the future. I don’t believe McCain can do that.
We need someone with a sharp intellect, an ability to understand complex nuances in issues, and someone with integrity.
McCain used to be a champion for taking the high road in politics. The campaign he is running, his choice of a running mate, and his own disrespect of Senator Obama indicates to me that he has compromised his values.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:01 am PDT
I think Obama won the debate, he had better answers and a better presentation. You are right McCain seemed confused and old at some points. And if that is the case there is no way I would want Palin to be the next President. She is so ‘out there’ and doesn’t know a thing about the country or how to run it. I found it strange that McCain just left and didn’t spend any time with the public that he is supposed to be representing. I hope the next & last debate will give us a better idea of what they really would like to do. I’m tired of the trashing of each other I want to hear what they would like to do.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:02 am PDT
The commenter DemocracyRules above whines that “America stopped paying attention to character”.
The problem for John McCain is in fact the opposite, that his erratic patronizing and out-of-touch presentation is indicative of his character. From not having the courage to look at Obama at all in the first debate to his strange “that one” comment in the second debate, McCain’s weak character is shining through, and I certainly notice. I’m sure I’m not alone in saying no one with that weak of a character belongs at “the tiller” of the strongest military and largest economy in the world. The man has poor judgment and is rash.
That hand is anything but steady.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:02 am PDT
My Friends…
It’s sad to see the people like Jerry here doing exactly the opposite of what McCain said he wasn’t going to do. Well I’m not surprised… he’s just playing follow the (haha) leader.
Remember when Sen. John McCain said: “I pledge again a respectful campaign. A respectful campaign based on the issues and based on the stark differences we have on the vision for the future of America”.
then Sen. Barack Obama said: “I told him I was looking forward to a civil substantive debate on the issues and he agreed”.
then McCain said: “I’ve pledged to conduct a respectful campaign and I urge, time after time, various entities within the Republican party to also do that”.
How far we have come in such a short period of time.
Oh, I guess McCain forgot that he said these things. And I guess that Sarah Palin forgot that he said it too. For what they’re both doing and saying is exactly what McCain said he wouldn’t do.
I guess that they’re just following in the footsteps of George Bush… if you make the lie big enough and say it long enough- the people will eventually believe it.
It’s just outrageous.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:03 am PDT
Obama was crisp, no doubt about it. What we have seen in this election is that Obama is the only constant. He seems prepared and focused and he is very orifginal in his thinking. The rest seem to try to keep-up with Obama. In short, he is the pack leader. And he had displayed his unique ability to lead in many ways.
Calm and collected person. Which is what we need in our president in this volatile time in history of our nation and the world.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:03 am PDT
To Mindy- No, obviously no one was watching the same debate as you.
To re- You will have a much easier time expressing your views with correct spelling. If you are not poor but not rich, then you are middle-class and I would suggest you pay more attention to the Obama tax cuts… they will probably benefit you greatly. And please let your family decide for themselves.
To The King- Please look at McCain’s track record in his first four years… talk about not doing a thing!!! Obama did however help with ethics and health care reform as well as set low-income tax credits. He has also repeatedly denounced Ayers past activities that happened when he was 7 YEARS OLD living in HAWAII. Furthermore, should everyone who listened to FR Mallison, Jerry Falwell or Ted Haggard be discredited for the remainder of their careers. The answer is NO, so stop trying to use Wright to discredit Obama.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:04 am PDT
Well, I guess lot of you were watching a different debate. What I saw was a man with a good vision of this country mopping the floor with McCain. I thought that Obama was the clear winner of this debate and I do believe that this race is over and Obama will be the 44th president of the United States. Now many of you say that Obama is a Muslim terrorist that models himself after Hitler and is going to make everyone in America wear turbans in 5 years and that is not true. He has a funny, Muslim sounding name because his father came from a Muslim country. Barak is a Christian and with the interview with Rick Warren he gave better, more well defined answers which picture him more of a Christian than Senator McCain was able to do. But why do we automatically assume that because Barak Obama has a Muslim sounding name that he is a terrorist? That is because the George W Bush administration made everyone in America believe that after 9/11. Keep in mind that McCain is George Bush’s cheerleader and refers to Senator Obama as “That One”.
Now, about the William Ayers link. They were on the same panel, nothing more. It is the same as one of you being on the same PTA committee with someone that might be a sex offender. Does that make you a sex offender? No it does not but this what the McCain campaign would like you to believe. If you were running against Senator McCain you better believe that you would be labeled as such though, that is how they work. And do you honestly believe that Senator Obama could be elected as a US Senator and have real ties to a terrorist? Come on, that is just stupid.
As far as Rev. Wright goes, his actions were shameful at best. This does not mean that this is what Senator Obama believes. Can you control the actions of every person that you know? You probably would cut ties with them soon after they were talking like that and that is what Obama had done. Yes he was going to that church for about 21 years or so and I am sure that Wright had said some inflammatory statements and true he should had left a long time ago but what can you do? Obama should not be held responsible for someone’s actions unless they happen within his own family.
But if you want to talk about guilt by association, let’s talk about the Keating 5. Oh, whats that sound, oh is that the souind of crickets? That’s what I thought.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:04 am PDT
When McCain said he’s knows how to catch Bin Laden, should have set off alarms in everyones head. I know it stuck with me. If you know how to get him, then do it now! Or are you only going to do it if you get elected? Obama gets my vote as the clear winner of both debates.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:05 am PDT
People comment on politics of hatred that Obama supposedly engages in, but then choose not to address the vitriol that the McCain campaign has engaged in the last few days (”palling around with terrorists,” etc.).
People comment on the importance of moral fiber but get lost in their own abstractions, never seeming to locate anyone’s moral fiber or even define it beyond “this guy doesn’t have it.” Are the words, “I hated the ****. I will hate them as long as I live,” indicative of moral fiber? Because that is what John McCain stated in 2000. Alarmists will point to Reverend Wright as some type of radical, but in truth his sermons merely reflect the attitudes of many people in this country, for better or worse. If you actually watch his sermons in their entirety you will find that they are not as slanderous as the media soundbytes want you to believe.
People comment on Obama’s failure to “denounce” William Ayers and Reverend Wright. I ask you people this: when a colleague of yours says something you disagree in, or has some type of criminal record, do you publicly denounce them to your other friends so as to register your complaint? If you do you probably don’t have any friends. The idea that public denunciation (a) means anything and (b) is expected from someone who has been acquainted with someone is ludicrous.
It is refreshing for me, as a moderate who supports Obama mainly due to Palin’s ineptitude in concert with McCain’s age, to see the McCain campaign and the FoxNews media resorting to scare tactics with regard to Obama because it means one thing only: the end is near for them as they grasp at their final straws.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:05 am PDT
During the Primaries, I was unsure of Obama (I’m and independant, but traditionally
have voted democrat) due primarily to his lack of experience. In the past I was somewhat impressed with McCain, as being a centralist conservative (not a mondern neocon). I was
hoping that McCain wouldn’t sell his soul to the far right neocon’s, the religious fundamentalists, and would be a more traditional fiscal conservative. But, now it seems
that he is espousing the same philosophy as GW Bush. Then I come to find more about
his past history (early military, Keating 5, His first wife, his deregulation votes,
his favor for the very wealthy .vs. the middle class etc. etc.), and see him not as a
strong agent for change who might have tried to do things bipartisan, but just more of the
same old same old. Remember that the Repbulicans have gotten us in 10 trillion in debt
spending. I really don’t think much of that 10 Trillion has trickeled down (the rich have been getting richer, the middle class losing ground). Economies in countries where there are higher taxes, universal healthcare, and there is more individual fiscal responsibilty (saving and spending within your means, no high mortage or credit debt) are healthier than in the US. Its time to stop the spending. The pain that each of us as US citizens need to feel and experience is to begin to realize that we should buy what we need and can afford, not what we want, to make sacrifices to lower the debt, to take a stand against the next quarter mentality on Wall street that drives corruption, and poor economic choices. We still have a wealth of resources in this country, in terms of wealth, and the grit and hard work of the american people. But we have to turn our views from , “What’s best for me , me ME” to what’s best for the health of our country. Its going to cost us, but there “Aint no such thing as a free lunch”. And for the past 8 years we’ve been getting a free banquet.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:06 am PDT
People comment on politics of hatred that Obama supposedly engages in, but then choose not to address the vitriol that the McCain campaign has engaged in the last few days (”palling around with terrorists,” etc.).
People comment on the importance of moral fiber but get lost in their own abstractions, never seeming to locate anyone’s moral fiber or even define it beyond “this guy doesn’t have it.” Are the words, “I hated the ****. I will hate them as long as I live,” indicative of moral fiber? Because that is what John McCain stated in 2000. Alarmists will point to Reverend Wright as some type of radical, but in truth his sermons merely reflect the attitudes of many people in this country, for better or worse. If you actually watch his sermons in their entirety you will find that they are not as slanderous as the media soundbytes want you to believe.
People comment on Obama’s failure to “denounce” William Ayers and Reverend Wright. I ask you people this: when a colleague of yours says something you disagree in, or has some type of criminal record, do you publicly denounce them to your other friends so as to register your complaint? If you do you probably don’t have any friends. The idea that public denunciation (a) means anything and (b) is expected from someone who has been acquainted with someone is ludicrous.
It is refreshing for me, as a moderate who supports Obama mainly due to Palin’s ineptitude in concert with McCain’s age, to see the McCain campaign and the FoxNews media resorting to scare tactics with regard to Obama because it means one thing only: the end is near for them as they grasp at their final straws.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:06 am PDT
I had a lot of respect for Senator McKain. Unfortunately, the Candidate McCain worked hard last night to dim his image. This disrespectful “That one”, no recipes but “I am the experienced one” argument over and over again… while looking frail and choosing the “experienced” Palin…
Every election we choose the least of evils. And this time it is certainly Obama-Biden. They do not inspire me, no, but at least it looks they would not screw up this country as bad as Bush-McCain-Palin…
October 8th, 2008 at 9:07 am PDT
I don’t think that you can say that anyone clearly won the “Town Hall” debate. Each party will no doubt claim victory but in my opinion neither of them addressed the heart of our economic problems. As far as foreign policy goes, a weak economy also weakens our worldly status. No nation has ever prevailed in conflict without a strong and stable economy to back it up.
Personally I don’t feel that we have a great choice with either candidate. I have no doubt that we will survive in the long run because that is our nature, but it will be a long and painful recovery. I place the overall blame for our economic peril on greedy Wall Street and corporate executives and elected politicians who have, for one reason or the other, turned their heads and let it all happen.
Maybe we should remember this the next time we vote for a Mayor, Senator, Congressman or President?
But who am I to judge…I’m just a Mainstreet guy who gets up, goes to work every day, pays taxes, buys gasoline and groceries…and can’t afford to retire after working over half a century.
I feel like I’ve done my part to help this country over the years but now I feel like the country isn’t doing it’s part to help me. However, no matter how much corruption and mismanagement has gone on for years, I’m still thank God that I’m an American and still proud I’m free!
October 8th, 2008 at 9:07 am PDT
This debate did little to change my mind about Obama; I was far more intrigued by McCain. As a democrat I really wasn’t expecting to pay as much attention to him as I actually did. He really is trying to make up lost ground. I almost found myself agreeing with him on some things. Then I realized that most people would see what I saw - not much. No real substance, no real answers, no real plans. Sadly I must say that Obama is spectacularly good at not answering questions and being overly verbose about it too. I can’t help but think about the whole ticket though. With Obama you get Biden and with McCain you get Palin, who is, frankly, the most terrifyingly unprepared VP candidate in my memory anyway. She has shown herself to be out of her depth on many issues already - what about all those issues, as McCain said, that have yet to be discovered or the ones we just haven’t mentioned yet? He said himself this is not the time to be learning on the job; if he levels that bullet at Obama he’d better fire one off at his running mate. That clinches it for me. Obama may not everything but he’s better than Palin and he’s got Biden with him. If McCain were to become unable to fulfill his duties Palin is the LAST person who should sit in that seat. Even better: if McCain is otherwise engaged in business who could possibly want Palin as our representative for negotiations with China, for example? “you betcha” isn’t going to go very far there!
October 8th, 2008 at 9:08 am PDT
Why do we continue to have these non-debates? The candidates are so afraid of saying the WRONG thing that they say NOTHING.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:10 am PDT
A shot across the bows
Paul Begala, in a shot on Meet the Press that sounds like something other than an offhand remark, suggests an Obama comeback to an expected McCain ad blitz on the Ayers relationship.
Obama, he was asked about this in a debate in the primaries with Hillary Clinton sitting there, and George Stephanopoulos of ABC asked him about it. He answered it, pointed out that the despicable acts this guy committed were committed when apparently Barack Obama was eight years old.
And I think Governor Palin here is making a strategic mistake. This guilt by association path is going to be trouble ultimately for the McCain campaign. You know, you can go back, I have written a book about McCain, I had a dozen researchers go through him, I didn’t even put this in the book.
But John McCain sat on the board of a very right-wing organization, it was the U.S. Council for World Freedom, it was chaired by a guy named John Singlaub, who wound up involved in the Iran contra scandal. It was an ultra conservative, right-wing group.
The Anti-Defamation League, in 1981 when McCain was on the board, said this about this organization. It was affiliated with the World Anti-Communist League - the parent organization - which ADL said “has increasingly become a gathering place, a forum, a point of contact for extremists, racists and anti-Semites.”
Now, that’s not John McCain, I don’t think he is that. But you know, the problem is that a lot of people know John McCain’s record better than Governor Palin. And he does not want to play guilt by association or this thing could blow up in his face.
The guilt-by-association attacks on Obama are as much about tapping into a range of hazier doubts as they are about the details of any given charge, so I’m not sure they’d work on the better-known McCain.
There is no shortage of mud like this on both sides, though, from Ayers and Rezko to Gordon Liddy and the Alaska Independence Party.
_____________________
You can find more about the World Anti-Communist League on page 291 of my book, Dossier Secreto: Argentina’s Desaparecidos and the Myth of the “Dirty War.”
In it I point out that at the Fourth Congress of the Latin American Anti-Communist Confederation (CAL), a World Anti-Communist League affliliate, participants included Salvadoran death squad leader Roberto D’Aubuisson; his Guatemalan peer, the neofascist Mario Sandoval Alarcon, and a representative of the Alpha 66 Cuban-exile terrorist organization.
The CAL included a secret Mexican society called TECOS, whose dogma U.S. columnist Jack Anderson later exposed and which “made enemies of Jews, Jesuits, and communists–with a bit of medieval Nordic mythology thrown in for good measure. CAL-TECOS propaganda, published in their magazine, Replica, aired weird stores about Jews, witches, drug addicts and homosexuals taking over the Vatican. During his visit to Mexico, Pope John Paul II was elevated by the propagandists from a homosexual drug addict to the anti-Christ.”
Replica had once listed Stefano Della Chiaie, the Italian narcoterrorist who worked with fugitive German Nazi Klaus Barbie in Bolivia, as one of its foreign correspondents.
Posted by: Martin Edwin Andersen | thanks Martin–jonnybullet
October 8th, 2008 at 9:11 am PDT
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:12 am PDT
For those of you who voted for Bush/Cheney and now support McSame, I have one question: Why do you hate Freedom?
I think supporters of Bush/McCain are lazy of thought and reckless in action, drunk on some kool-aid of self destruction and hubris.
I’m glad not everyone is drinking that kool-aid.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:15 am PDT
I find it interesting that because Obama is leading in the polls suddenly it’s the “young” who are impressionable and falling for this ruse of a good talker without much substance, yet these are the same voices that voted in Bush twice. Interesting.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:15 am PDT
Obama clearly won the debate.
McCain has his butt handed to him.
Obama is as american as any of us.
Obama denounced William Ayers.
William Ayers was so against the Vietnam War he set bombs off.
No innocent people were killed.
He was not convicted.
William Ayers thought the vietnam war was so wrong, he stood up for what he believed in. How can anyobe ask me to think that’s wrong?
October 8th, 2008 at 9:15 am PDT
Obama built a little stronger answers this time around I thought, McCain looked lost and tired. Their is no way I can vote for him with that Palin right behind him, she is a “Reality TV” show gone wrong. Our country needs brains not entertainment.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:16 am PDT
It is clearly time to look at the answers that the cadidates gave. Go sit down, meditate and then in 25 days go to the polls and vote. We’ve heard 2 debates and the answers have not changed even though the debate questions may have. It’s no longer who’s too old or is our country ready for an African-American president. Both claim they are Chrisians so you can throw that argument out the window as well. They were both very specific about their priorites. They were both very specific about what they would do about the things that concern most americans. Stop trying to convince other people on how they should vote. Look inside yourself and say what am I loking for in a president and then go and vote. It really is that simple. God bless you.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:16 am PDT
Did anyone else notice that McCain’s wife looked like a hot 30 something. It really made him look old. He seemed to have some stiffness in his legs that made him look like a tottering old man getting ready to get another beer.
That whole exchange at the end, where McCain slapped Obama on the back. Obama turned and was about to greet him when he dissed him for Cindy McCain. Obama then had this smug smile, like, “yeah buddy, I just dissed you for your wife”. That was my favorite moment.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:17 am PDT
After watching the debate and considering what I saw I am more convinced that Obama will win this election. Will he be perfect or not make mistakes, I think not. I do believe he will turn us around from the mess of the last 8 years. I am concerned however, with some of the comments that I have read. I am a fire chief and I have seen some really tough events. But as tough as it it is, my fire fighters go and get the job done. They know the danger and the difficulties that they face, but they work together and they succeed. This country needs that kind of an attitude now more than ever. Come on people lets all step up and get the job done. We can do it!
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:19 am PDT
I thought that Obama, by and large, did an excellent job of explaining many of his positions, clearly, step by step. He seems be finding his voice, dialing in the right level of detail. His calm air of confidence came off (in these quarters) as presidential.
I thought McCain did much better on the personality front than he did in the first debate (which I thought was pretty disastrous for him on that angle). His disdain for his opponent — which seems out of sync from many Americans, even those who like Obama but don’t necessarily trust him — was a little more disguised. (Although there were times when a bitter dismissiveness entered his demeanor; the “that one” comment referring to Obama was particularly inapt give the circumstances.) But he still was far off the mark from the twinkle-eyed geniality that his idol, Ronald Reagan, used so effectively to isolate himself from the cuttingness of some of his often effective political one-liners.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:22 am PDT
Temperament - Obama
Intelligence - Obama
Bluster - McKain
Folksy - McCain
Economy - Obama
Dancing around questions - Both
Winner - Obama
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:23 am PDT
Well, I guess lot of you were watching a different debate. What I saw was a man with a good vision of this country mopping the floor with McCain. I thought that Obama was the clear winner of this debate and I do believe that this race is over and Obama will be the 44th president of the United States. Now many of you say that Obama is a Muslim terrorist that models himself after Hitler and is going to make everyone in America wear turbans in 5 years and that is not true. He has a funny, Muslim sounding name because his father came from a Muslim country. Barak is a Christian and with the interview with Rick Warren he gave better, more well defined answers which picture him more of a Christian than Senator McCain was able to do. But why do we automatically assume that because Barak Obama has a Muslim sounding name that he is a terrorist? That is because the George W Bush administration made everyone in America believe that after 9/11. Keep in mind that McCain is George Bush’s cheerleader and refers to Senator Obama as “That One”.
Now, about the William Ayers link. They were on the same panel, nothing more. It is the same as one of you being on the same PTA committee with someone that might be a sex offender. Does that make you a sex offender? No it does not but this what the McCain campaign would like you to believe. If you were running against Senator McCain you better believe that you would be labeled as such though, that is how they work. And do you honestly believe that Senator Obama could be elected as a US Senator and have real ties to a terrorist? Come on, that is just stupid.
As far as Rev. Wright goes, his actions were shameful at best. This does not mean that this is what Senator Obama believes. Can you control the actions of every person that you know? You probably would cut ties with them soon after they were talking like that and that is what Obama had done. Yes he was going to that church for about 21 years or so and I am sure that Wright had said some inflammatory statements and true he should had left a long time ago but what can you do? Obama should not be held responsible for someone’s actions unless they happen within his own family.
But if you want to talk about guilt by association, let’s talk about the Keating 5. Oh, whats that sound, oh is that the sound of crickets? That’s what I thought.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:23 am PDT
I thought McCain had “SYMPATHY” twirled into his starting lines for most answers. Ofcourse sympathy is important but not when people are looking for straight answers. True we lost many men in Afghan quarters but we need someone to avoid this in the future.
I also thought Obama kept repeating what he said earlier and things kind of went in circles. I watched the debate with my friends and they thought the audience did well.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:23 am PDT
I am truly surprised when I hear people indicate neither candidate gave any specifics or that Obama only speaks in generalities. Looking at the individual responses last night, Obama was often the only participant to offer a specific response to the question. His speeches have also grown significnatly more detailed as the election nears while Palin and McCain seem truly at a loss for where to begin to tackle the problems the nation is facing. I also think the issue of expereince has been far, far overblown. The President is supposed to lead, to set a direction, to play orchestra conductor to our vast democratic machine. Looking at these two gentlemen in that context, for me anyway, Obama has that ability. He inspires, he’s focused, and he seems to grasp the current situation and what is most pressing far better than McCain.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:26 am PDT
It just goes to show you never can tell what lever is pulled in private behind the voting curtain. I thought Kerry performed much better than Bush in the ‘04 debates. The Chicago Cubs were also favored to win the World Series this year.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:27 am PDT
I heartily agree with JerryT! Very pleasantly surprised by this article.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:27 am PDT
Looking at video of last night, I noticed that McCain wasn’t wearing an American flag pin, though his opponent was. Curious Hmmm? Is he that angry about this election that he would no longer support the flag?
October 8th, 2008 at 9:28 am PDT
Mccain looked worn out, and was condescending to the the audience—almost acting as if he was talking to children. He seemed like he was having trouble remembering the “canned answers” up until the end. It was kind of sad and he seemed deflated and tired and feeble. Obama appeared to be in control of the debate for most of it and projected energy and compassion and ideas.
The smear stuff seems to be irrelevant. American voters are looking at the present and the future, and so the past conspiracy theories are not being listened to very much. Palin is a critical handicap to Mccain….it is almost like everyone is tuning HIM out because they want to tune HER out. And she has taken over the ticket with her KLAN-style rallies. Sure the extremist mad-dog GOP loves her…but no one else does and that extremist base is too small to count for much in the election.
finally, it is important to note that Nov. 4 is the END of the election. Most states are early voting, and millions have already sealed their vote, so all of this Ayers hysteria and name-calling is not impactful other than for making Palin herself seem like a new brand of “terrorist.”
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:30 am PDT
I saw a Mcain that knew the complexity of some of the problems the next president will face, he has the experience
in my opinon,Obama did try to provide answers but,he didnt really answer them ! This lack of experience will hurt us
and young voters want a young kennedy type that looks good on t.v. and a bunch of phony promises that are going
to cost us , Mcain said look at my record and then look at his ,before you vote look it up i hope u change your mind vote
for Mcain
October 8th, 2008 at 9:30 am PDT
When listening for debate details, compare the candidate’s comments with their party’s platform. Remember that when you are voting for a particular person for President, you are really voting for their party’s values, desires, programs and platform.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:31 am PDT
I, too, thought McCain looked awfully frail, drawn, haggard. He looked like a man on the doorstep of his dotage. Really, he should just retire. Why did he go hobbling off of the stage? He probably needed to go to the bathroom.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:31 am PDT
Since when does getting your *** shot-down in a foreign country, then getting caught and held for leverage over the US, then helping his buddy Charles Keating defraud the American people (which brought about the Savings and Loan financial crisis of the 90’s) make you 1) a great man and/or 2)suitable to lead our country?
AND he’s a hot-head / war-hawk who’s likely to go off 1/2-cocked (as he’s admitted himself) and involve us in yet ANOTHER conflict to help finish-off the jobe Bush started and bury our country,
AND he’s a doddering old man, likely to expire and leave the reigns to an idiot.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:34 am PDT
The thing that struck me was that Mcain kept talking about a “spending freeze” while Obama talked about job creation thru infrastructure expansion. With 160,000 jobs lost in September, it’s not hard to guess which viewpoint is going to resonate with voters. It seems Mcain wants to put everything on pause and let the American system fall farther behind the rest of the world while Obama wants to roll up his sleeves and do what is necessary to keep us competitive. When a business stagnates, is it better to sit back and do nothing, with all the same old stock on the shelves, or to re-invent yourself and put some money toward growing your brand?
October 8th, 2008 at 9:35 am PDT
Doggone it , you can find details on the web.
energy - barackobama.com/
October 8th, 2008 at 9:35 am PDT
Forget who is old, who is young, who is strong and who is weak, I will vote for Obama , simply because he will think and consult before making any decision. He will be at least in touch with reality.He will be on the ground. Compared to THAT ONE.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:35 am PDT
I can honestly say this: If you don’t know who your going to vote for by now, you scare me and you probably shouldn’t vote. These guys have delivered their message for the last 6 months. The only thing that has changed in all that time is that the republicans decided to hijack the “Change” slogans in an attempt to distance themselves from Bush. Otherwise, the substance of both messages hasn’t changed at all. Neither of these guys is going to say anything that’s going to change minds or significantly alter the landscape they’ve already laid down.
Their records and opinions are out. Look at them and decide. It’s that simple. If you can’t do that by now, your not voting your ideals or on the issues, your trying to vote for the “winner” and that’s just wrong. Stand up on your own two feet and choose.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:36 am PDT
Obama is by far a better speaker,a better presenter and a better orator than McCain. But those traits alone do not make him the person who should represent the cradle of democracy and freedom. The Republican campaign does well to introduce Obama’s relationship with Ayers, a terrorist by any other name and a socialist who supports many anti American causes such as the President (dictator) of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez (a violator of human rights and democratic values who Ayers calls him comrade). Thus, his close ties with Ayers and his spiritual link to Reverend Wright, a racist, provide us a GOOD look at Obama’s decision making abilities, his ideology and his true patriotism.(not to mention his wifes college writings). Some argue that this should not be done, but lets get something straight we do not know anything about Obama…the press is not allowing us to know.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:36 am PDT
just to add one comment to my previous post:
What standard are you Obama-haters judging him by? He will be replacing GEORGE BUSH, THE WORST PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE NATION. Bush destroyed our economy and made us a laughing stock in the world. Are you actually saying that Obama will not do BETTER than Bush? You keep bashing him and yet he is light years ahead of BUSH in intelligence, temperament, experience, education, compassion and tact. HE WILL FAR FAR SURPASS GEORGE BUSH AND THAT IS THE REAL QUALIFIER HERE.
Many of you voted for BUSH—where on earth was this set of “Presidential quality standards” in 2000 and 2004? Why was Bush exempt from all of this/??? Bush had A TERRIBLE REPUTATION, SHADY BUSINESS DEALS, HIDDEN PERSONAL SECRETS, AND A PROFOUND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND COMPASSION.
SO WHY AGAIN WAS BUSH SO PERFECT IN YOUR VIEW AND OBAMA IS NOT?
October 8th, 2008 at 9:37 am PDT
In the first presidential debate the moderator keep trying to get the two candidates to address each other in followup discussion without much success. In the second debate the moderator cut off the candidates when they tried to followup with discussion on what each other were saying. It was poor moderating in my opinion and led to a less interesting and informative debate.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:37 am PDT
If the America people are as wise or intelligent as the British or French people, they should know that Obama should not be the one working so hard to win their votes.
Just imagine, as an American, waking up after election day to know that McCain-Palin are your new leaders for the next 4-8 years:
1. How can you ever forgive yourself for such a fatal mistake?
2. What will happen to your beloved Constitution?
3. Bush had a father who was a President, yet look at where America is after 8 years. Did the Republicans deliver what they promised? Will they deliver for the next 4-8 years or clean up their own mess
4. What would you live to tell your children about this wonderful opportunity for change? Was it “racially or simply party motivated? And is it really worth the Risk you took?
McCain, a man who either didn’t know or didn’t remember that Czechoslovakia hasn’t been a country in 15 years.
McCain, a man who said last year he doesn’t know anything about economic, now you want to risk your country future by electing the same person to fix your economic problem?
McCain, a man who doesn’t know how many house he own while you are losing your home and jobs.
Palin wants teenage protected from any sex education and look what happened to her own daughter, do you want that for your children and grandchildren?
If the past eight years have been good to you and your family, then vote for
McCain
If John McCain becomes president is going to be the beginning of world war 3. America people be ready for a blood bath, McCain is addicted to war, he’s always talk about war, war. And Russia will not hesitate to strike America
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:38 am PDT
I have been an Obama support for a long time, so last night was not a game changer for me in any way. I was disappointed in some of his lack of answering some of the questions that came up, especially on whether health care should be treated as a commodity, but that aside the issue of McCains age was more evident last night that ever before.
If McCain had been running against Al Gore instead of Bush in 2000 I would have voted for him hands down, but we long ago lost that McCain. I agree he has served his country well, but it is time to move forward not stay where we are.
He reference to Obama as “That one”, that just really chapped my hide, I am sorry, it was so not right…on every level!
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:39 am PDT
Neither candidate was willing to acknowledge that recent economic events have fundamentally changed what we may expect from the next administration in Washington. McCain was particularly Pollyanna in this regard with his assertion that America can implement many changes and programs all at one time. That is simply not very realistic. On the whole, I suspect that the debates will not produce a shift in the current trend toward Obama. I agree with the person who said that age is the elephant in the room. McCain set himself up for defeat when he selected Sarah Palin as his VP choice. No rational, thoughtful person would want to see Sarah Palin in the White House.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:41 am PDT
Mary says, “Obama reminds me of Hitler…a great..crowd [a]rouser..”. That’s a pretty nasty comparison. It seems to me that I’ve never heard of anyone in an Obama/Biden crowd yell out “Kill him” as someone did at Gov. Palin’s rally the other day in Florida as she roused them into indignation about Obama’s supposed terrorist ties. She over-succeeded; she didn’t rebuke that “Kill him”, and she continues to use the same questionable information to successfully rouse subsequent crowds. It’s unbelievable to me that “Kill him” was heard at all in America at a campaign rally and the candidate’s methods of animating the crowd haven’t changed, but solidifed.
Now who exactly reminds you, Mary, of Hitler?
October 8th, 2008 at 9:41 am PDT
I am so relieved to be able to ignore the right wing ranters as irrelevant. Reasonable Republicans realize that their ship is sinking, and they know why … in fact, they know they’re lucky to still be in the race. It should be a complete blowout, given that we’re dropping $10B/mo. in Iraq while Afghanistan fails and the world economy implodes, and all signs point to a massive failure of the Republicans to run the government effectively. From lying to get us into a disastrous war that will never have a truly useful outcome, to gutting EPA, FDA and SEC oversight, to blowing FEMA response, to criminal invasion of privacy and torture, there is very little that the Republicans haven’t done wrong in the last 8 years.
Reasonable Republicans may not approve of Obama’s policies, but they can’t miss that Obama is more cogent and specific than McCain, and meets every unfair attack of McCain with a calm but effective rebuttal. More importantly, while McCain’s record gives us no reason to believe his assertion that “I know how to do this, it’s easy,” Obama’s overwhelming international popularity, in combination with his cool and collected sensibility, gives us strong reason to believe him when he says that he can get our allies to cooperate with us to tackle some of the massive problems we face, such as Iran’s nuclear ambitions, African genocidal wars, and Islamic terrorism.
Given the meltdown of the economy, even formerly staunch libertarians are rethinking their knee-jerk opposition to government regulation. And even those that favor the trickle-down theory may realize that the discrepancy between the richest and poorest has gotten so large that a correction is essential for societal stability, and besides is effective at expanding the economy for everybody, the wealthiest included (but not exclusively!).
Obama is an extraordinary politician, having Bill Clinton’s intelligence and, while lacking his charm, having instead a truly plebeian background and sensibility that may impart some resistance to corruption. If it weren’t for the fact that he’s black, he’d be winning by 2:1. But it doesn’t matter; a win is a win, and overcoming a barrier like race requires a politician as extraordinary as Obama, together with a political situation as extraordinary as the complete destruction of the Republican brand by GW Bush.
We’re still going to suffer for years due to the meltdown of the economy, but I think that in 10 years we’ll be climbing out of the ruins, finally free from our strategically crippling dependence on foreign oil. If we can do that, there could yet be another American century on the way.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:42 am PDT
Post debate discussion is clear confirmation that most of the American public is more focussed on style than substance. This will lead to a nightmare scenario with Obama, Reid and Pelosi in full control and able to pursue their ultra-liberal agenda with virtually no checks or balances.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:42 am PDT
I agree that none of the candidate were specific. But given what went on, Obama was better in many ways. McCain kept saying ‘I know how to do it, I know how to fix it’ for almost each question. But what’s that “How”? McCain stressed on saying “Look at my record, look at my experience” …yes we do see it and then it becomes hard to ignore that you were there for 23 years and didn’t do any of the things that today you are bragging to do. Why you’ll do it now? Coz now vote counts? Obama was not very specific but he was definitetly better in putting his points across. I would like to see no limit to follow up on topics like Economy and Health care. More they (candidates) talk to each other, more information will come out.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:42 am PDT
Barack Obama clearly won the debate. What i find difficult to understand is John McCain & his running mate Gov Palin clearly stated Obama as palling around with terrorists. Why then did McCain shake Obamas hand & say he agrees with him so many times? I think McCain & Palin speak with forked tounges. McCain wants to run with the foxes & hunt with the hounds. McCain says he continually opposes his party by standing up to them but agrees with & votes for everything the party wants. America is on the slipperdip going down because of the Republicans & Bush policies. The whole world knows we need to break this cycle and the way to do that is vote for change, vote for Obama. Good Luck in your choice.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:43 am PDT
Obama has experience in what area?
Writing good feel good books, listening to a racist preacher for 20 years, aiding a known terrorist.
Why is the wool over some peoples eyes so thick that they ignore facts.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:43 am PDT
To NoBamaMama:
Irresponsible journalism? If you would be so kind, please read the fourth paragraph again. It clearly states that Obama’s ‘win’ was based on the results of polls by SEVERAL national polls, not the opinion of a bias media.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:44 am PDT
I remain undecided, but beginning to lean.
It seems to me that Sen. Obama has the public speaking skills that reflect an underlying dipomactic approach that I’ve not seen in Sen. McCain. At the end of the debate last night, Sen. Obama attempted to shake hands with Sen. McCain who refused and nudged his wife’s arm in the general direction of Sen. Obma’s outstretched hand. When Sen. McCain and entourage departed quickly, right after the end of the debate, I beleive that this behavior that was not well thought through, or at least did not consider the impact on US Voters of seeing Obama engage with the audiance alone. It showed me how diplomatically focused Ombama appears to be and I like that. McCain’s decision to leave immediately seemed a petulant response.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:45 am PDT
Hey Scott–
You’re part of the problem.
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:46 am PDT
I am being a bit personal here hope it wont stop the editor form publishing
this note because I really believe people should read what I wrote.
I am really mesmerized at some response like JJS’s above.I mean this person he or she will vote and that s scary.
When I read someone like JJS I feel people in this country never learn.No experience is hard enough or miserable to make them understand what s really going on.We had GWBush for 8 long miserable years and as a result result a catastrophic world wide financial bankruptcy.People are losing their house everyday don’t have money to eat lose their job but no it does not matter lets give the white to same people that ruined us…
That s what scares me.It seems people like JJS no matter the hardship never learn their lesson.
Some people no matter how close they are from reality they cant see it.They live in darkness and will never see the light….
Hopefully this does not represent the majority of Americans like me whom know it is time for real change it is time to take this country in a complete different direction a winning direction.I have news for you JJS Obama was the winner last night he was the winner 2 weeks ago and yes he will win the white house because he is the light at the end of the tunnel he is the candidate of real change…period
October 8th, 2008 at 9:46 am PDT
Obama: Last Man Standing.
Why did McCain quickly exit the debate? It seemed an admission of failure.
By being willing to remain and engage with the people, Obama showed interest in and respect for them. I’m sure that confirmed the debate winner within the hall, at least.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:46 am PDT
Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one. - Marcus Aurelius
October 8th, 2008 at 9:48 am PDT
PLEASE tell us all what qualities George Bush has that makes him PRESIDENTIAL??? He has one of the lowest approval ratings in the history of the nation.
What is your standard and why is BUSH acceptable?? He lied, connived, misled, ducked and ran… he avoided the draft, apparently partied his way though half of his life, ran sports businesses, and was a buffoon and rigid stubborn man with blinders on…..is that your idea of what our next president should be like???? You loved Bush for all of those sterling qualities, but don’t like Obama?
You like a vp candidate who lies in every other sentence, laughs at the laws of our country, and in the middle of an ETHICS INVESTIGATION???? AND A SENATOR WHO WAS IN THE KEATING SCANDAL AND CAN’T REMEMBER HOW MANY HOMES HE OWNS? THAT IS THE ADMIRABLE STANDARD FOR YOU?????
October 8th, 2008 at 9:49 am PDT
I assume that most people that read and respond to articles on the CSM are Christians. I am appalled to see the type of responses I’ve read: “put a silver slug in his a__.” What is the world coming to?!
McCain and Obama both had decent debates. No one was particularly strong, but each held his own. But the debate should not be getting this much attention. It should be McCain and Palin’s rallies. The speeches McCain and Palin are giving are inciting violence and racism, dividing this country instead of lifting it up.
Be honest with yourselves. Who is behaving like a Christian? Let that be your decision, not someone who merely says he/she is a Christian because it is an election year.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:49 am PDT
Obama clearly demonstrated competence. McCain was at a loss when he didn’t receive the same feedback from his normal town hall meetings. When your main weapon is attacking the person instead of the argument, then your arguments lack substance as we saw. It doesn’t surprise me to learn McCain ducked his tail and left quickly after the debate. This was his format, and it didn’t pan out well for him. The McCain campaign’s desperation has to be at an all time high right now.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:50 am PDT
I watched the discussion last night. I say discussion because it, in no way, resembled a real debate. So the discussion seemed, to me , to go toward Senator Obama. When I read these posts I feel a deep sadness at the pit of my stomach. The hatred and vitriol dripping from some of them reminds me that no matter what the truth or evidence is… idiology and bigotry relplaces reasoned thought. Please America, remember this. We all sink or swim together. Millions of people of all walks of life are losing thier homes, thier jobs and, in the case of our youngest and finest, thier lives. No one will be uneffected by the coming financial crisis. If this country is to survive we must put away our narrow and dogmatic thinking and pull together as one nation again. Neither Senators Mccain nor Obama, by themselves, will be able to produce the change in direction we so despreatly need. It will take all of us. The discussion was mostly uneventful… yes. What frightens me are divisive comments flooding the airwaves and posting pages like this on. I’ve always found the CSM to be fair and balanced (sorry fox news) and this article is no different.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:51 am PDT
At this point we should call the election “American President”, have Simon be moderator, and ask for a talent competition while we all text in our our cell phones to who will be the next prez.
I see more comments on how they LOOKED. Thats why we havent had a bald prez since the tv was invented.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:51 am PDT
Thisis a very strange article. The title–Obama wins–has almost zero support from the body of the article.
McCain probably lost on the health care “round” because he wasn’t clearer than Obama. He probably won almost every other round–including, astoundingly, the round on the economy. Obama is a bit embarassing to listen to on foreign policy–his list of talking points is mighty thin.
The FOX team thought the debate was boring. They were wrong because the average American wasn’t able to distinguish between McCain and Obama clearly after the first debate. McCain wasn’t esp. articulate and permitted Obama to basically appear to be on all sides of several issues (ie. cutting taxes, while raising spending etc). In this debate McCain was relatively clear–and hit Obama sharply when Obama tried to hide behind his record. THe best momemnt was when MCCain pinned the economic crisis to Fannie, Freddie and Obama.
Experience wasn’t an issue?! FOr the first time McCain hammered home his own record–and Obama’s missing record. Experience was a main point of the debate!
McCain didnt’ score a knockout of course. However he laid the groundwork for the coming weeks.
McCain wants to cut taxes to restore the economy and has the bipartisan experience to solve America’s most pressing problems.
Obama is a candidate w/ little experience, highly questionable associations, and who comes across as a bit “slick.” WHen he ran for Senate, he won because he the opposition dissolved in scandal. He got the nomination because a good percentage of democrats are tired of the Clintons. He is now poised to get the presidency because of the economic crisis. Do you give the presidency to someone by default? THe voters have not yet made up their minds.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:52 am PDT
You want to see a nation collapse? Watch the news.
You want it to continue?
Elect another Rebublicommie to line their fat pockets with the national treasury.
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October 8th, 2008 at 10:01 am PDT
A bit too much vehemence, posters. Both are good men and have solid ideas for our future. As an independent, the issues to me are obviously the economy (I’m a Realtor), health care and civil liberties. I did go to glassbooth.org and found that my candidate was Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader, but they’re gone. Barak clearly is my choice here.
Salem is too vocal, and largely correct about Bush, but Reagan possibly might be the most overrated pres (he should have been an ambassador). McCain shot himself in the foot with his(?) choice of Scarah Palin as VP. She has no business anywhere near DC. I don’t trust her any more than Vladimir.
Obama might sound great, but I seriously doubt he’ll be able to get the traction needed to work his plans when the money is going towards fighting and rebuilding terrorist nations. His ideology is fresher and more convincing to me.
We need Barak’s energy, diplomacy and common sense, and the possibility (threat) of Palin as the President is enough to swing (frighten) my vote to the left this time.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:02 am PDT
McCain probably left the stage quickly because he had to pee… it was 90 minutes after all, and he’s not a young man !
October 8th, 2008 at 10:02 am PDT
As a long time GOP supporter I cannot, in good conscience, vote for Obama. Sadly, John McCain is no longer the man I once knew and supported. Even more troubling is how old and tired he looked last night. Knowing that voting for McCain could potentially, god forbid, lead to a President Palin I am now inclined to stay home on election day, or maybe vote for a third party candidate.
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October 8th, 2008 at 10:05 am PDT
“and all the rules and punishment in the world are no match for ingnorant arrogance, greed, lack of ethics, and delinquency”
quoted by “Scott”–above
———————————————————-
Great point–ignorant arrogance was on full display last nite–from Mcain and his huffing and puffing while Obama was answering questions. From Mcain when he snubbed Obama’s handshake at the end of the debate-very mature. Who is the greedy one? The community organizer from Chicago or the beer baron from Arizona who owns (?) houses? Who has shown a lack of ethics? Keating 5 ring a bell? Tax breaks for major corporations–including 4 BILLION to big oil? I just loved Mcain telling audience members “you’d never even heard of Fannie or Freddie before last week…” Talk about arrogance.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:05 am PDT
“Go ahead America. Punish the people who take risks so you can enjoy the riches of this country.”
By enjoy do you mean loose all of our savings so we can’t pay our medical bills let alone groceries? Because that is what the people who took the “risks” have delivered in the last eight years.
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October 8th, 2008 at 10:09 am PDT
OBAMA took over this debate, he won and he is winning. People, if you are going to vote, think before taking a huge step backwards, if McCain wins, we will bring another “BUSH” and we do not want wars anymore, we want the the economy gets better, REPUBLICANS lied about the 911 envolving a country that had NOTHING to do with the terrifying date! I invite you all to take a look a this documentary, it is important to read and investigate that past life of McCain, he is the biggest liar!!! big big liar, open your eyes!!!
http://www.youtube.com/v/g72BuIvMbWY&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1” />
and
http://www.youtube.com/v/IH0xzsogzAk&hl=en&fs=1” />
McCain is the biggest liar!!
VOTE FOR OBAMA! THINK!
October 8th, 2008 at 10:11 am PDT
Ron Carrara and Robin
All I can say is that you two still have that PREJUDICE. If Barack Obama was a white man he would of been further in the polls. McCain seems to be very fragile. Would you want someone like Sarah Palin representing the United States and speaking on our behalf. She has no substance, she can only relate to the people in Alaska.
If you cannot give an answer to a simple question like what papers you read, someting is wrong. If she was black with a teenage daughter that is pregnant, it would of been a different outcome.
It is SAD
October 8th, 2008 at 10:13 am PDT
Obama WIN the debate. McSame is not mentaly fit for this jop.
That One / Biden 2008
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October 8th, 2008 at 10:21 am PDT
Good riddance, Arthur E. Lemay. Don’t let the door hit you on the a** on the way out. Do you think you could convince your buddy George Bush to go with you?
Thanks!
October 8th, 2008 at 10:21 am PDT
Message to Birr,
The Wall Stree takers did not fail to pay their mortgage. A fact that should be obvious if you are to believe the news about golden parachutes handed out etc.
The bill to pay for wars in countries that in one way or another have an effect on our society is not the reason that we are footing a 700b bill although I do recognize its impact on our economy .
The issue and one that neither candidate addressed last night is how to get each American to become the best American they can be.
And when they or anyone gets to the heart of the individual and implants the true American spirit into them you will see this nation once again become a Nation we can all be proud of.
Again I implore whoever takes the most important job at the most powerful nation in the world to fix the problem one individual at a time by implanting them with words of inspiration and not doom and assisting them with education.
We can play violent games until our thumbs ache, we can watch violent sensless movies, we can go to gambling casinos and take exoctic vacations that we cannot afford and justify our actions by the fact that we deserve it and continue to be a drain on other Americans or
We can get real, live within our means, go back to work by taking that job that was beneath us, get back in the mainstream and become a better contributor, better parent, and better American.
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October 8th, 2008 at 10:23 am PDT
I watched Joe Biden on GMA this morning. He said he believed the reason Sen. McCain would not look at Sen. Obama was because he found his line of attack distasteful, even if he knew he had to do it.
So it’s quite possible the “looking away in disdain” was actually John McCain being unable to look Barack Obama in the eye out of embarrassment. I’d like to think so, anyway. It would go a long way to redeeming a man I used to respect, but now think of as a sleazy flip-flopper.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:25 am PDT
Judging from the sad results of the previous two elections, any arguement about the worthiness of either candidate is redundent. If each is going to have the best brains of the country assembled in their Whitehouse team it makes MaCain’s constant harping on about ‘experience’ not so important - he’s just one amongst many. What is more important is their charcter and their vision. Hopefully both feel the need for change. Who really does believe that change is essential to lift America, the world’s second biggest democracy, out of the pit of darkness that Bush has plunged it into? We need a ‘free and fair’ leader to be shining the spotlight into the murky corners of the world. It isn’t America at the moment.
Ian, Lome.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:29 am PDT
Ohh Linn, don’t go there with the You Tube videos because I can get a lot more on Obama and his socialist, anti-American agenda…
October 8th, 2008 at 10:34 am PDT
Sure it would have been a change of pace if McCain stood up at the end and asked the American people:
“Do you want to live in a socialist fascist state controlled by a dictator whose political career began in the living room of a domestic terrorist.”
People were looking for blood last night and I can understand that. But in reality as the media did their number to set up Palin to fail in her debate the media was attempting to set up McCain as well. Obama did not say anything different. In fact Obama was more boring than McCain. You can only stretch “style” so far.
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October 8th, 2008 at 10:39 am PDT
When I first read these comments, there were a lot of thoughtful observations. They ran about 4 to 1 in favor of Obama, though. The right wing nuts made up for it by posting their rants 4 and 5 times, but that wasn’t enough for them; they’ve also found it necessary to eliminate the sensible views that they don’t approve of by marking the “objectionable.”
There was very little offensive material. Aside from redundant posts, how can you right wing twits justify trying to silence everybody who disagrees with you? Not that you need justification; you’re just pathetic, and justification is irrelevant.
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October 8th, 2008 at 10:42 am PDT
To let people know where I stand so they may choose to continue reading or not, I am a Repbulican and conservative by nature but am not enamored of all of John McCains positions.
That being said, I am utterly amazed at the lack of knowledge on how bills get passed and the limitions that the Office of the President has. Congress passed or in way too many instances did not pass legislation reigning in the ability of people to get loans they could not afford. President Bush’s push to allow more people to buy homes turned into a fiasco because common sense was not used in the qualification processes which allows finanaical institutions to take the free market concept and infuse it with “pure” greed.
“We” the American people as well as the government; Congress, Sentate, and Administration, Republicans and Democrats, allowed what my mother termed common sense to be absolutely disregarded. Home ownership is not a constititional right. It is an economic freedom that is earned by saving enough to afford one. That is why so many people around the world want to come live here. We have the “freedom” to earn that right through hard work and perseverence.
Please let’s all understand that what is really needed (although I hold out little hope it will be accomplished) is a realistic look of what Congressional, Senatorial, Administrative, and otherwise business actions caused this situation and then put in place a system to not allow it to happen in the future.
People make mistakes, however, if someone (CEO, elected offical making laws) says that a financial institution is OK and then 60-180 days later it goes bankrupt then I believe there should be criminal charges brought up. This is fraud and I am committed to ensuring that this behavior is abruptly changed immediately.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:42 am PDT
“Obama’s having been born and raised a Muslim and having left the faith to become a Christian make him neither more nor less qualified to become president of the United States. But if he was born and raised a Muslim and is now hiding that fact, this points to a major deceit, a fundamental misrepresentation about himself that has profound implications about his character and his suitability as president.”
http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/50148.html
Not a take on his religion but the man’s character and INTEGRITY…anything to get elected I guess
October 8th, 2008 at 10:48 am PDT
everone should vote for McCain. I mean, the republicans already screwed up our country, so he can’t possibly do any more harm, right? He does not understand the economy, but that is ok, Sarah Palin is a nice person.
We elected bush twice, so we can elect another Republican, who cares about the issues anyways…issues, we can always talk about the surge, and drill baby drill….who cares that pensions are disapearing, that people are losing their jobs and homes, but we are going to drill now, we are going to drill here.
McCain 08
October 8th, 2008 at 10:51 am PDT
Flash polls are always interesting,since they capture the emotion or mood at that time. But even the analysts after the 1st debate noted, things seem to change by the next day, after people have had a chance to sleep on it.
So I found it interesting that the highly respected Zogby/Reuters’ poll on 10/08/08 has McCain & Obama tied up again after last night’s debate (http://www.c-span.org/pdf/zogby/poll_100808.pdf)
October 8th, 2008 at 10:56 am PDT
I keep hearing that it is Bush’s fault that America is in the crisis we are in. The last time I checked we have a democratic Congress and a democracy. Does Checks and Balances mean anything to anyone? Bush does not have the authority to do everything that has put us Americans in this crisis. Have we forgotten that? We are compromising our values as citizens if we vote for Obama and Christian values as well. He is hiding something especially about being Muslim. He is definitely not the Messiah he reminds me more of Judas Iscariot, betraying the Christian faith or Jesus with a kiss to get what he wants. All in all if its easier to vote democrat then work go ahead. And I say if people can call Bush Hitler than I can call Obama Muslim!!! Wake UP people…..
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October 8th, 2008 at 10:58 am PDT
It has seemed to me for quite a while that the main goal of the Bush administration has been to redistribute the wealth of America to themselves and their closest friends and business associates. This has been the case with Iraq, tax cuts, deregulation of the banking industry, oil, etc. I am interested in a president and administration going forward who will change those priorities and show some conduct and goals that inspire me and other citizens, because our image here at home and abroad has been blackened by the conduct of our government over the last 8 years. Torture, reduction of civil rights, secrecy of the administration, Plame, etc. All these activities have damaged our country. I want something better. I hoped it would be John McCain, but his choice of Palin, perhaps the least qualified person in the USA, his stated goals of continuing tax breaks for the rich, his interest in remaining in Iraq forever, and his lack of decency in the campaign, allowing his “dog” to spout false, racist vitriol against Senator Obama, to claim that Iraq was responsible for 9/11, to question Obama’s faith and patriotism, have convinced me that he is no longer the man I respected. He has become a bitter, smarmy, smirking old man who is so desperate to be president that he does not care if he destroys his own soul and reputation to get there. He has lost my respect and my vote.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:59 am PDT
HOW STRONG OUR OPINIONS - HOW WEAK OUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACTS:
1. Opinion:
Republicans have screwed up the economy, Democrats will do better.
1. Facts:
The Federal Law that permitted home loans to unqualified buyers
was inacted prior to the 2000 election (read: CLINTON administration).
McCain and others warned of potential financial failures of “Freddi & Fanny” and tried but failed to pass legislation that could have prevented current problems. It was the Democratic leadership that “protected” that failing “F & F” administration (a fact acknowledged by a Congressional Democrat on National TV this week), his quote: “the Republicans had this one right.”. And, Senator Obama is the second highest beneficiary of “campaign contributions” from “F/F” executives in the US Senate (in just one term). One of the “F/F” execs chaired Obama’s VP selection committee. BUT HE WILL BRING CHANGE! Yea, sure! Change from really bad to worse?
2. Opinion: The OBAMA tax policy is a winner!
2. Facts: Businesses DO NOT PAY TAXES, consumers PAY ALL BUSINESS EXPENSES, including taxes in the price of the goods/services sold. When the price of bread, milk, cloths, and other goods go up to pay the cost of increased Federal taxes, the consumer will pay that increaed cost or go without. And, many business will fail - and jobs will be lost.
3. Opinion: The promises of educational opportunity for all, a FIX to the high cost of Health Care, and a solution to the high cost of gasoline at the pump is what we need; Obama will deliver.
3. Facts: Education, Health Care, Welfare and Law Enforcement costs have risen by billions due to the influx of illegal aliens to which the Federal Govt has failed to respond. The Liberal Federal Courts (San Francisco District - again, read: CLINTON administration) and Congressional Liberals (on both sides of the isle) are responsible for pressures to grant amnesty and “do nothing” until then. The Constitution says it is a Federal responsibility to “defend” tha Nation from invasion. When? When it’s too late? Energy costs are out of sight because the liberal environmental LOBBY has not permitted rational (environmentally sound) policies to proceed at a reasonable pace. No drilling (where it is reasonable to do so given today’s technology) and no new refineries, no new nuclear power plants, etc. Instead of US jobs and productivity, we are willing to transfer billions of of our national wealth to foreign nations, who then bring our dollars back and buy up our businesses. It ain’t the Republicans who have blocked these efforts, but certainly a vote for Obama will change all of the above. GET REAL!
HOPEFULLY, THIS NATION WILL GET A BETTER GRIP ON THE FACTS BEFORE THE NOVEMBER VOTE, if we don’t, stick around and see how many of these beautiful promises are kept. Care to make a bet? That is if anyone has anything of value left to wager.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:03 am PDT
I do not watch the debates on national media, only to hear other people tell me what they think happened. I watch them on C-Span, and make my own decisions.
For me, McCain again showed his strengths - getting to the heart of the issues, both literally and figuratively. And whether or not he was slick and smooth is not the issue. It’s whether he was right. And whether he has the character needed in this treacherous world, to recognize what evil is, and to stand up to evil when it is bearing down on our nation.
In the final analysis, all these ideas our candidates have need to be passed by Congress. So that’s where McCain is directing his fire — on us and our elected representatives who need to reform their priorities — and move away from money and power/pressure as our primary influence.
We’ve got to do what’s right for the people at large, everywhere.
So I ask myself, if Obama is such a good future-President, why does the media have to “push” him forward as everyone’s choice? As supposedly winning a debate, when we know more Obama than McCain people are hitting the web and call in shows?
I worked for Hillary in my state during the primaries, and we consistently ran into Obama people who were very angry and abusive to our workers, and sabotaged events here — and we never responded in kind.
And that’s what real change is about. Getting away from past practices, and recognizing when someone’s putting a new face on old tactics, better known as window dressing.
I certainly ask my friends why they’re voting as they wish to. I read and watch and listen to what commentators say, but not incessantly.
No matter what our religion or belief system is, we’ve got to get back to basics. For me that literally means: don’t steal, don’t lie, don’t covet, honor your elders, esp. parents, don’t be influenced by idols/distractions/egos, don’t kill.
The bottom line is we’ve got to listen to our own heart, without the news media or PR machines influencing us erroneously. We’ve got to find a unified basis on which to determine what’s right and what’s wrong.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:04 am PDT
Again, John S. McCain’s main problem is not that he is not a character, or that Obama’s character is flawless. John S. McCain’s problem is that his character is worse than his opponent’s. That bad character is reflected in his supporter’s posts above, in the whiff of desperation and meanness conveyed by their words, words with no substantive facts to back them up.
It shines through in his flip-flopping, in his lack of cohehrent leadership skills, and his former scandels including G. Liddy, “bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran singing, and taking donations to champion Charles Keating. People at his rallies now say “Kill him!” when Obama is mentioned.
My conclusion: the once well respected Republican Party is now the “what about me? Mine, Mine, Mine!” party of emotionally stunted and ethically challenged people.
Those Republicans who still have an ounce of accountability and self respect need to look at what is said and done in their name and reclaim the party in an honorable fashion.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:07 am PDT
GettaJob …you are an angry and frustrated and this could possibly affect your body health. Now, don’t worry about your brain health …it’s gone. We have jobs and we are trying hard to keep it and this is the main reason most people here sides with Obama’s vision for our country. MacCaine is not a bad person he just doesn’t have the right judgment (Palin & Keating) or temperament (economic bailout) to be president of our beloved America.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:11 am PDT
Obama is very smart. He has used the “change” banner in such a way that any negative points become positive points for him as if he had a magic wand.
What worries me is that Obama’s charisma creates an euphoria in people that doesn’t let them see things objectively.
Yes, we all want change, but saying it doesn’t create it.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:12 am PDT
TO SARA:
You are right about BUSH, it is not his fault, it’s the whole REPUBLICAN campain that messed up the economy, don’t get me wrong but
Please don’t talk about religion, Christians, Catholics, Atheist, Buddast, etc.. etc… has nothing to do with analizing and taking a big descicion about who will be respresenting USA. OBAMA has a fresh mind, he seems very honest when he speaks and he is well educated, I believe that he will change USA and I believe that democrats are have better thoughts and education than REPUBLICANS.
to all: In order to vote of give opinions, I think that we should be open minded, leave rascism behind! we are in 2009 almost and we still talk about having the FIRST african-american becoming a president? we are all human beings, we do need a big change, I am voting for OBAMA.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:20 am PDT
So, tell me this. McCain voted over 90% with Bush. Bush has been a dismal failure from day one. But McCain says he will change things. So, what part of the 10% that McCain didn’t vote with Bush on will McCain use to save the country?
If he agrees 90% with Bush, then 90% of the “Change” he talks about is no different than what we currently have. McCain is essentially then, Bush Lite, with 10% less bad decisions.
McCain is too old now for this job, he’s too out of touch, and he only represents the rich, the powerful, etc. He doesn’t know how many houses he owns, and he has never had to worry a day in his life where he was going to get the money to pay for something (food, mortgage, bills, etc.) He can’t represent Middle Class America if he has no idea what they are going through and what their concerns are.
We need somebody in office who understands average Americans, knows what they are going through, and will concern himself with making their lives better, not relying on old ideas that have been proven disastrous.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:26 am PDT
AND SARA: yes BUSH is TOTALLY COMPARED TO HITLER, if you analize or think little more, don’t you see what HE got us into???? A WAR!! maybe you don’t really see these things, maybe you don’t even care about the poor people that are dieing every day, innocent people, old men and women, CHILDREN, even innocent troops, for what? so that they could come back and have a collection of different HOMELESS?? more that what we have already?? I think YOU should wake up!! and not say that OBAMA is MUSLIM what is wrong with that anyway? RASCISM is not nice.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:27 am PDT
Scott and James–
Whoa, whoa, whoa—you misquote me–
The “leeches” you speak of pay up to 21% in taxes on their Mcdonalds wages.
Mcains cronies pay nothing due to huge loopholes he will do nothing to close. Halliburton has relocated to Dubai to dodge American taxes after receiving hundreds of billions in no-bid contracts. Meanwhile, we have veterans returning to the most desperate economic situation since WWII. After WWII we sent our boys to college and they took us to the moon. If we don’t start investing in green technology that we can send around the world, what will our industry look like in 10 years? What will our planet look like in 10 years? The central challenge is creating industry–not a “spending freeze” like Mcain would use to set us back another 10 years, while he gives big oil 4 Billion dollars for further polluting the earth.
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October 8th, 2008 at 11:44 am PDT
What did Mr. McCain learn from the Keating Five?
He obviously did not learn that deregulation of the S&L industry was bad for the thousands of people who lost their savings and pensions. And over $130 billion in 1990.
He did not learn that deregulation of the financial industry would cost us at least $700 billion in 2008.
Why would we promote someone who learns nothing from the ‘worst mistake of his life’.
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October 8th, 2008 at 11:49 am PDT
McCain sounds like Herbert Hoover. His protectionist policies would bankrupt America. The election is over, McCain is done, thank God. As far as people posting that weve had a free lunch in this country, you are living in a different place than I am! The last eight years have seen 60000 jobs leave my state! The only people getting free lunches are the wealthy and I pray Obama starts taxing them, heavily.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:51 am PDT
MORE THINK, LESS WINK!!
did anyone notice that McCain called a man “Oliver”(who asked the second question) “Allen”! I was so upset…he didn’t even acknowledge the gentleman while answering his question!!! How rude!
October 8th, 2008 at 11:52 am PDT
McCAIN won the debate hands down…Obama didn’t directly answer the key questions testing the resolve and stance of the candidates. For example he failed to respond to the question on the invasion of Iran I wonder who he was afraid of enraging…it certainly isn’t the American people. People join hands and vote McCain, we need a patriot in the house not a shady figure with questionable ties, whose religion seems at times to be more Muslim then anything else.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:04 pm PDT
JAMES…
you are so NOT informed… you can be descendant of any country, now, if you grew up in another country you are considered for the country your beliefs are from! and he doesn’t have ties to domestic terrorist, WRONG!
he just knows that “person” and he has nothing to do with terrosism, REPUBLICANS are in denial!
He doesn’t talks down to people, not conceited and or disconnected!!
I AM SORRY BUT REPUBLICANS ARE IGNORANTS, RACIST, and careless for the low and middle class, he actually said he would CUT the goverment programs!!
October 8th, 2008 at 12:12 pm PDT
ALAN
Once again, you ignore the facts and are unable to offer any acceptable arguments. Funny, if McCain was accused of associating with terrorists, you’d be all over that in a heart beat. Even the New York Times and CNN, tow of the most liberal media conglomerates admit there’s more to his association with Ayers than anybody ever realized.
Ignore the facts and get what you paid for.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:17 pm PDT
“That one.” Congratulations America you just saw, for a brief moment, the real John McCain. The spoiled Admiral’s son who wrecked three jets and one marriage and who runs around DC exploding from time-to-time. What a ****.
Beltway Greg
October 8th, 2008 at 12:39 pm PDT
Barrack is by far the more effective communicator and did an excellent job pointing out the inequality of our current situation. He did so without using any language that can be construed as “socialist”, which is a label that is attached to every Democratic candidate come election time. As supporters of Obama we must not allow the comfortable polling numbers to diminish our passion and call to action in this election. There is a more covert (not so covert with Ms. Palin on the prowl) political machine at work for the big red elephant. This machine prays on the past experiences of many Americans, calling on the emotions of deep rooted bigotry and a warped sense of nationalism. I have felt the resistance to “change” in my political interactions with family, neighbors and close friends. The level of indoctrination in the 20th century American self-image is alive and strong in many of us, whether we acknowledge it or not. On many levels the election of Barrack will allow us to create a new 21st century self-image so that we can address the problems of our world through a clearer “objective” lens.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:54 pm PDT
This time it is in reaction to what almost everyone sees – a media blatantly refusing to report on legitimate issues and distorting anything or anyone who stands in the way the Obama election efforts. The Senator’s past and the people who are close to him, the influences in his life, the experiences that shaped his thinking, those who have shaped his feelings for America, those that have shaped his religious views and values – they are critically important to know or predict where Sen. Obama might take America.
When I look at how the media has given Sen. Obama a complete pass on his past controversies and current allegations that are still out there, hidden from the public, I shudder. When I look at how the media and Sen. Obama have not allowed the general public to fully know or understand what his relationships and associations are really about, I shudder.
When Sen. Obama attempts to conceal his relationships and their importance, by making statements that require us to suspend our disbelief, I shudder. How could anyone stay in a church for 20 years, have his children baptized there, be married there, stand and clap, sit in the pews and still not understand the hatred and racism of Rev. Wright, his minister and spiritual mentor? How can anyone truly believe him?
How can anyone believe what the Senator says about the people he has distanced himself from?
Minister Louis Farrakhan. When he hired for his staff, Jennifer Mason and Cynthia K. Miller, who are members of the Nation of Islam.
Rev. Wright - the former preacher for a church the young Obama needed to belong to in Chicago to further his career. That’s not the Reverend Wright I knew was Obama’s response. After Sen. Obama threw him under the bus, Rev. Wright noted that Obama was distancing himself because Obama is a politician and that’s what a (Presidential) politician needs to do.
Pastor Michael Pfleger - whose radical ideas and preaching are well known in Chicago went under the bus. Not the Pfleger I knew.
Bernradine Dorn and William Ayers – Senator Obama sat on a board with Ayers, gave lectures with him, and went to his house for his blessings upon entering politics in Chicago. Ayer’s and Dorn’s group bombed the Pentagon. Obama has denied a close relationship. New evidence is now showing a much deeper relationship with William Ayers. (See Stanley Kurtz’s work)
And Tony Rezko. He raised money for Senator Obama’s political career, gave him a sweetheart land deal, introduced him to influential people, and most likely taught Sen. Obama a lot about corrupt politics in Chicago. Rezko went under the bus after Obama minimized the relationship. There might be new information coming out about this relationship now that Mr. Rezko is apparently singing to the Feds in hopes of reducing his possible jail time.
So what I know is that Senator Obama learned his lessons about Chicago politics well. When it was time to throw someone, anyone, a church, a grandmother, under the bus to advance his political career; he did it with prose and ease.
Also what I know is that people in Chicago understand that politicians say and do the things that politicians believe they need to say and do. Rev. Wright’s comment that Obama was distancing himself from himself because Obama is a politician and that’s what a (Presidential) politician needs to do - clearly reflects this understanding.
So what is my fear? If Senator Barrack Obama finds himself in the White House, then it is entirely possible (likely) that all of the people mentioned above will be welcomed back into Senator Obama’s life. The Senator said that he could no more disown Rev. Wright than he could disown the black community? This leads to my questions:
Will we see Rev. Wright, Pastor Michael Pfleger, Pentagon bombers Bernradine Dorn and William Ayers, Minister Louis Farrakhan and corrupt Tony Rezko and his associates, staying in the Lincoln bedroom?
Will ACORN, an organization involved in causing the current financial crisis and numerous instances of voter fraud, have a seat at his table?
And lastly, will the American Tax Payers be forced to endure the ultimate humiliation by being required to foot the bill for pampering and honoring Louis Farrakhan and the Brothers of Islam, for honoring Senator Obama’s racist pastors, for honoring Pentagon bombers and terrorists, for honoring (and possibly pardoning) the Senator’s corrupt contributor Tony Rezko and his associates? At this late date, it appears very possible. Therefore, it is imperative for voters to look closely at Sen. Obama’s actions, companions and friends.
Those of us who have closely observed the Senator’s campaign and the Media’s support fully realize just how unfair the playing field is for Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin.
How much attention has been given to the ongoing federal lawsuit challenging Sen. Obama’s eligibility to be President (Berg v. Obama)? The answer is very little.
How much attention has been given to Larry Sinclair’s allegation’s that he did cocaine and engaged in consensual sex with Sen. Obama in 1999? The answer is very little.
How many reporters have been dispatched to Chicago to vet Sen. Obama? The answer is very few.
How many reporters are looking into the new allegations concerning massive amounts of illegal campaign contributions coming into the Obama campaign? Not many.
How many reporters are seriously looking at Sen. Obama’s connections to ACORN and the failure of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac? The answer once again is very few.
How many reporters are looking for people who can tell Obama’s story? I’m not sure anyone can without damaging Senator Obama. The media is not looking for them.
Who are the people endorsing Sen. Obama? Many of those who want our destruction.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:07 pm PDT
I have watched both debates - I think I want a President who sounds and looks presidential - Obama seems to be that person. For the most part, our country has been led mostly by on the job trainees. McCain suffered as a POW and we cannot take that away from him but that still does not qualify him any more than Obama to be president. Everyone who is elected the first time has on the job training the first few years - it’s the advisors and the “party” platform who actually “run” the country. For the last 8 years, George Bush was the figure head, the country’s condition was created by Dick Cheney as his advisor - the man behind the man. Cheney is even more scary than Palin.
I don’t want our young men and women dying in Iraq — I do not understand why we are there and why we didn’t finish in Afghanistan first. I work and pay taxes and I want them to be spent on entitlements, the poor, the elderly, the sick. I want everyone to have affordable healthcare. These are moral things we need to do as a country. The so-called religious people in this country who have had so much influence on our government the last 8 years are hypocrits in my book.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:08 pm PDT
GettaJob Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 9:16 am EDT
-2Flag this post as inappropriate
The only reason you Obama fans want him to win is so that you can live in a welfare state and continue to sit on your fat, lazy ***** and blog on goofy websites all day long. The blogs are just filled with you people.
Go back to work!
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GettaJob, seems like you continue to sit on YOUR fat, lazy posterior and blog on goofy websites all day long!! The blogs are just filled with you people. Really, it is obvious you are on these blogs as well; how else could you make that accusation? I am amazed at the number of people are “anti-government”, guess you folks do not realize that “WE, THE PEOPLE” ARE THE GOVERNMENT!! The reason we have elections is to choose OUR LEADERS. I know, we have not had “A GOVERNMENT FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, AND OF THE PEOPLE” for a very long time and obviously many have forgotten that we ARE the government, “WE, THE PEOPLE” elect our leaders.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:21 pm PDT
Gary Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 9:04 am EDT
-1Flag this post as inappropriate
When McCain said he’s knows how to catch Bin Laden, should have set off alarms in everyones head. I know it stuck with me. If you know how to get him, then do it now! Or are you only going to do it if you get elected? Obama gets my vote as the clear winner of both debates.
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Yes, McCain has been saying he KNOWS how to win wars and he KNOWS how to catch Bin Laden. We have been in Afghanistan since 2001 and in Iraq since 2003, it is now 2008!! John McCain, IF you are so “GIFTED” with KNOWING how to win wars and KNOWING how to catch Bin Laden, why are we still in TWO wars and WHY hasn’t Bid Laden been caught/killed?? Have you been keeping this “knowledge” to yourself so you could accomplish these things IF you became president? Then, YOU would be so PROUD OF YOURSELF AND YOU WOULD DEMAND KUDOS for your great accomplishments?? If so, then you are much more of an egotist than I thought—putting our soldiers in harm’s way and literally killing over 4,000 and maiming thousands of brave men and women because YOU KNOW HOW TO WIN WARS AND CATCH BIN LADEN BUT NOT DOING SO!! You, John McCain do NOT KNOW how to win wars and you do NOT KNOW how to catch Bin Laden, so zip your lying mouth and talk about FACTS. John McCain is a dispicable man!!
October 8th, 2008 at 1:26 pm PDT
If Al Gore had been elected 8 years ago, if nothing else, I think most would agree, we would be that many years ahead in advancing alternative fuels. Thus not financially feeding the terrorist machine and cleaning our environment and preserving the worlds oil reserves for plastic objects and fertilizers. Most do not understand that oil is a limited resource that we need to be preserving for future generations. This is the responsible human and spiritual thing to do. Most of us would say they believe in a God but we are not acting like it. We and, particularly the Bush Administration, are pursuing material agendas and now we are reaping the effect. McCain’s judgement on this crucial national security is lock in with the Bush Admin. and the past century. We have no way to store nuclear waste. It is a self centered and again a short sided judgement of our situation.
This is but aspect of all the issues on the table. Imagine once again if Mr. Gore had won in 2000. I think most would agree we would not be in a war in Iraq or financial bankrupt because of it. This was initiated by this radical Christian admin. that has done a disservice to the causes of God on Earth. Yes its good that Saddam is gone but we did not follow the rule of international law to get there and have now undermined its authority. Why should any other country follow it if we won’t.
I could go on and on like imagining if we had followed President Eisenhowers admonitions to ‘not allow the military industrial complex to control our destiny’ so that we not become the largest arms dealer in the world, landmines, nukes, chemicals. Has this encouraged cooperation among our brothers and sisters of Gods world?
Now the same people that brought us to this situation are rude enough to offer us more of the same. I might have respected John McCain ability to lead until he offered us Ms. Palin and her vastly limited understanding of reality. He with this step and following the Carl Rove doctrine of politics has declared himself as surly more of the same **** ideas about humanity’s future.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:26 pm PDT
Hey James, the core of your argument makes for an excellent thesis. Not much is known about the true past of our presidential candidates. But where you lost me is in your insistence on filling in Sen. Obama’s blanks with your personal opinions and unproven mythology.
Let’s replace Sen. Obama w/ Sen. McCain and replace Rev. Wright and the players in your argument with Keating, a barrage of Washington lobbyists, his wife’s beer empire family and associates, Palin and her husbands Alaskan independence party, his ties to former Bush operatives… and the argument works just the same. Just because the guy you support has name recognition and his skin color and ethnicity (or lack of) matches yours, does not make him any less of a mystery.
The legitimacy of your argument is tainted by your blatant RACISM! I haven’t heard anyone in the media outline McCain’s relationships or conflicting interests EITHER! You “my friend” are the cancer of this country and if left to the moral compass and intellectual integrity you lack to display, this country will soon have an EMIGRATION problem.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:28 pm PDT
If Al Gore had been elected 8 years ago, if nothing else, I think most would agree, we would be that many years ahead in advancing alternative fuels. Thus not financially feeding the terrorist machine and cleaning our environment and preserving the worlds oil reserves for plastic objects and fertilizers. Most do not understand that oil is a limited resource that we need to be preserving for future generations. This is the responsible human and spiritual thing to do. Most of us would say they believe in a God but we are not acting like it. We and, particularly the Bush Administration, are pursuing material agendas and now we are reaping the effect. McCain’s judgement on this crucial national security is lock in with the Bush Admin. and the past century. We have no way to store nuclear waste. It is a self centered and again a short sided judgement of our situation.
This is but aspect of all the issues on the table. Imagine once again if Mr. Gore had won in 2000. I think most would agree we would not be in a war in Iraq or financial bankrupt because of it. This was initiated by this radical Christian admin. that has done a disservice to the causes of God on Earth. Yes its good that Saddam is gone but we did not follow the rule of international law to get there and have now undermined its authority. Why should any other country follow it if we won’t.
I could go on and on like imagining if we had followed President Eisenhowers admonitions to ‘not allow the military industrial complex to control our destiny’ so that we not become the largest arms dealer in the world, landmines, nukes, chemicals. Has this encouraged cooperation among our brothers and sisters of Gods world?
Now the same people that brought us to this situation are rude enough to offer us more of the same. I might have respected John McCain ability to lead until he offered us Ms. Palin and her vastly limited understanding of reality. He with this step and following the Carl Rove doctrine of politics has declared himself as surly more of the same **** ideas about humanity’s future.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:29 pm PDT
“MORE THINK, LESS WINK!!
did anyone notice that McCain called a man “Oliver”(who asked the second question) “Allen”! I was so upset…he didn’t even acknowledge the gentleman while answering his question!!! How rude!”
@phill:
Not only that; “Allen” was the older, white gentleman who asked the first question. McCain wants him to keep HIS house! Freudian slip?
October 8th, 2008 at 1:48 pm PDT
You may be a little premature concerning who won the debate. We “little people” as labeled by you media elitists are still calling the “first” debate between McCain and Obama a “McCain Victory.” This debate was likewise a victory for McCain. McCain not only warded off the Axelrod lies that Obama was spouting for weeks, but took the time to clear the record about who voted for what in the Senate. I’m confident that we’ll see a McCain/Palin victory next month and a real bipartisan maverick cabinet selected by a President-Elect McCain. Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Kennedy, Feinstein, Reid, and the rest of the fifth columnists who highjacked the American Congress during the last two years might be looking for new careers; good riddance.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:52 pm PDT
AuK, pull yourself together. You’ll be OK.
October 8th, 2008 at 2:25 pm PDT
I have a question that I hope someone can answer for me.
What is the percentage of Republicans and Democrats in the US? My guess is that it’s a 50/50 split.
If that’s the case, well my friends, with George Bush’s approval rating tanking at a dismal 24% in favor of his performance (which is the same as the rating Nixon had at the time of his impeachment) -my math then tells me that even more than half of the Republicans out there do not like Bush. Look at McCain’s record just like he asked you to and you will see that he is essentially George Bush III.
I for one can’t afford a rerun of the last eight years under the Bush/Cheney regime.
Just say no to John “Rerun” McCain!
October 8th, 2008 at 2:32 pm PDT
GettaJob, I must also respond to your claim that Obama supporters “want him to win so that you can live in a welfare state and sit on your fat, lazy****….” For your information, it is mostly the college students, college graduates, and people with BAs, MSs, and PHDs that are supporting Senator Obama. It is mostly the people who have good jobs and who contribute to our communities that support Senator Obama. Guess you did not notice that it was the people with high-school or less who supported Hillary Clinton and probably supporting McCain right now. So, your “claim” is INVALID and CRAZY!
October 8th, 2008 at 2:39 pm PDT
Gary Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 9:04 am EDT
-1Flag this post as inappropriate
When McCain said he’s knows how to catch Bin Laden, should have set off alarms in everyones head. I know it stuck with me. If you know how to get him, then do it now! Or are you only going to do it if you get elected? Obama gets my vote as the clear winner of both debates.
——————————————————-
Yes, McCain has been saying he KNOWS how to win wars and he KNOWS how to catch Bin Laden. We have been in Afghanistan since 2001 and in Iraq since 2003, it is now 2008!! John McCain, IF you are so “GIFTED” with KNOWING how to win wars and KNOWING how to catch Bin Laden, why are we still in TWO wars and WHY hasn’t Bid Laden been caught/killed?? Have you been keeping this “knowledge” to yourself so you could accomplish these things IF you became president? Then, YOU would be so PROUD OF YOURSELF AND YOU WOULD DEMAND KUDOS for your great accomplishments?? If so, then you are much more of an egotist than I thought—putting our soldiers in harm’s way and literally killing over 4,000 and maiming thousands of brave men and women because YOU KNOW HOW TO WIN WARS AND CATCH BIN LADEN BUT NOT DOING SO!! You, John McCain do NOT KNOW how to win wars and you do NOT KNOW how to catch Bin Laden, so zip your lying mouth and talk about FACTS. John McCain is a dispicable man!!
October 8th, 2008 at 2:57 pm PDT
NINAK
How could anyone stay in a church for 20 years, have his children baptized there, be married there, stand and clap, sit in the pews and still not understand the hatred and racism of Rev. Wright, his minister and spiritual mentor, said that the U.S. deserved 9/11.
Talk about dispicable…..
October 8th, 2008 at 4:11 pm PDT
James, there you go again…where is your left brain today?
Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson on 9/11?…ring a bell? how about Katrina?
Do you question the real political first-hand influence these characters have/had on Conservative politics. Many Christian leaders from all political views, have held us in contempt for our behavior.
Apparently in your mind, if the skin is white, it must be right? Surely you can’t be so blindly ignorant and racist. Let’s talk about DESPICABLE…JIMMY!
October 8th, 2008 at 4:29 pm PDT
Dear Friends,
By now you must all realize that Democrat and Republican are brand names. They are corporations, selling a product. The very fact that independent parties are virtually shut out of the election process, regardless of how well their values and ideals would represent We The People, should tell you that our country is owned, not made. The Debate Commission is, predictably, run by a combination of Democrats and Republicans.
The fact that G.W. Bush was allowed into office (and accepted the office) on a technicality instead of the true popular vote should tell you we have been hijacked. The fact that, in this modern age, the Electoral College system (in most cases) gives all of a state’s votes to one candidate, even if the actual vote comes out 49% to 51%, should tell you we have no real power here.
The fact that wealthy and influential “Superdelegates” have more say than the regular delegates should tell you our elections are bought and sold.
The only difference I see in this poly-monopoly election is that McCain would lead us in the direction of more oil-for-power and no-bid contracts for his buddies to harvest it and reap the profits. Obama has a vague chance of moving our power-hungry eyes toward the Earth’s vast supply of wind, water, and sun.
So between McCain, a member of the Ruling Class, and Obama, a superstar of the Hollywood Court, which puppet would We The Groundlings like to see? I’ll take the black guy who is more likeable to rest of the world. He will, at least, LOOK different, standing at the helm of hubris, than another rich white guy.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:15 pm PDT
I am intrigued by Senator John McCain’s assertion that he can get Osman Ben Laden because he knows how! I think it is highly irresponsible of him to say so because if he knows something why is not sharing it with the present administration instead of letting the American and other troops suffer especially in Afghanistan
October 9th, 2008 at 6:26 am PDT
To MCS I say, why do you think the Republicans have not raised all the necessary funds to combat Obama’s mega millions he’s raised from questionable sources? Why did conservative Republicans initially say they would not support McCain? Why did moderate Republicans take a while to support him? Why did the Bush/Rove machine, 4 years ago, smear McCain with such disdain?
Because he’s NOT part of the machine. He’s not the voice of big money.
Who has been staunchly campaigning for this $700B bailout? Obama. Obama is the big machine candidate. Obama is the one who’s got the support of big oil, big corporations, big money — from offshore bank accounts — and terrorist organizations — and from the Saudis, etc.
Just because McCain is rich, doesn’t mean he’s in lock step with big money people. His life and his wife’s global outreach to others is an example of how they are using their money to make this world a better place.
Guys, we’ve got to dig deep to find the truth in all this, and stop looking at the surface of things.
And guilt is not the right reason to vote for someone. Or the cavalier attitude, “well let’s give him a chance and see how he does.”
This is not the time to experiment with an unknown.
Nor is it the time to vote for someone because we feel guilty about how their ancestors were treated.
We do not have to feel guilty, nor personally responsible for African slavery. Or for the adjustments we’ve all made about people who do not look like us. We’ve all had to be re-educated in some ways, and learn how to like and love those who are different from ourselves. And we are doing a very good job of it.
But guilty? No. Do native Americans feel guilty about the other Indian tribes that wiped out their peace-loving neighbors? (Remember “Dances with Wolves”?) Do the Chinese feel guilty about the actions of their ruthless ancestors? Do the Europeans feel guilty and personally responsible for the acts of the Barbarians?
BUT at the same time, do you belong to any organization, especially a “Christian” church, that for 20 years has preached hate and racism from the pulpit? That’s not what Christ said. And it’s not what the majority of Americans say.
Electing an inexperienced, gifted speaker to the White House does not remove hate or racism or guilt or past mistakes. It prolongs them.
But electing a noble, hard working, courageous, and severely tested individual does, who has fought against his own party, and their big money and influence, and their smear campaigns against his willingness to raise a child from an entirely different background.
In these times, we need someone who’s faced evil, and refused to be seduced by it.
It’s big money that’s helping Obama win in the polls. Not virtue.
October 14th, 2008 at 7:29 am PDT
Dear “Works not words”,
You mistake me. I am not under the impression that Obama is any more or less honorable than McCain. I like the idea of moving toward clean energy; though I don’t think of nuclear, or as Palin says, “nukular”, as being clean energy. Nothing with an undisposable toxic by-product can be considered truly clean.
I don’t feel personal guilt about slavery. My ancestors came from Europe in the early 1900’s, from war-torn countries ravaged by dictatorship. No… I’d simply like to see a different color puppet on my TV. If I had my way in this election I would have heard from people like Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, Ralph Nader, and Cynthis McKinney. But you don’t see these folks included in the corporate process.
I don’t believe there is any difference between McCain and Obama. The GOP ran McCain because they needed a face that was, supposedly, middle-of-the-road, and Mitt Romney was too far to the right.
This year’s John McCain is nowhere near the John McCain of 2000. This John McCain has had his campaign hijacked by the extreme right. This John McCain didn’t get to run with Joe Leiberman (whom he probably would have chosen as his running mate if the GOP hadn’t tried to spin up a Hillary-esque trump card).
This John McCain has a campaign repeating debunked exaggerations. This John McCain has a campaign shifting wildly from political point to political point, no doubt maneuvered by forces beyond his control. This is not John McCain of the Straight-Talk Express, strong and independent-minded. This is John McCain moved by a political machine far larger than himself.
As I say, our Government has been hijacked. McCain has been hijacked. Watch him. He’s not himself. He knows he’s fighting a losing battle against his own party and the Poly-Monopoly who have decided it’s the left wing’s turn to rule. The GOP is more interested in promoting their flashy Vice Presidential candidate than their prime runner. And, like it or not, there is a stark difference in the abilities of the two. The cavalier attitude, “well let’s give him/her a chance and see how s/he does” could as easily apply to Sarah Palin, a woman who didn’t give her readiness to be Vice President any consideration. The second-highest office in the land and she didn’t even think twice about it.
As for the bailout, it was perfect proof that the government has been hijacked… I INCLUDE THE LEFT. Most “representatives” received an overwhelming majority of negative correspondance from their constituency regarding the bailout bill. That amounts to a majority of We the People. Enough of the “representatives” still voted to pass the awful thing. Money talks. Picture the historic face on any legal tender; now picture it with a speech bubble and the words, “My vote counts more than yours”.
By the way, I’m weary of the whole “Obama is the terrorist antichrist candidate” rap. Bush Jr. was backed by Saudi oil money, too, but nobody seemed to have a problem with that four years ago. Or eight years ago. Or when Harken Oil was built. Or when Bush was shaking hands with the Bin Laden family. Or when his father was shaking hands with the Bin Laden family. Obama is backed by all the usual multi-national suspects who play both sides in the Presidential game.
No one, truly motivated by the best of any religion or organization, has the influence to move elections. Those good people are too busy helping the sick and downtrodden. They’re building houses and administering medicine. They’re not hording cash and building mansions for themselves. They’re not out glad-handing the money brokers and ultra-wealthy.
Power corrupts. People of real virtue rarely seek power.
The meek shall inherit the earth, right? When does that happen? When do the meek ever “rise against” if they are taught to remain meek? We The People take a vow of voice and act a vow of silence. We are given the freedom to ’speak out’ in order to relieve the pressure to ‘act out’.
April 27th, 2009 at 6:37 am PDT
I agree with you 100% - things happen for a reason. I found this by accident and noticed that we have some things in common. Thats what I love about the Internet, every blog is like a box of chocolates
Thanks - Great blog.